Title:چه کاری نباید انجام داد درس هایی که از شکست دیگران آموختیم

۱۴-۶-۲۰۱۳ این وب‌کست فقط برای مشاهده در دسترس است، برای اعتبارات AICP CM قابل استفاده نیست. ارائه دهنده: اندرو موری، AICP، LEED GA یک فرد عاقل زمانی گفت: “از اشتباهات دیگران بیاموزید، احتمالاً نمی توانید آنقدر زندگی کنید که همه آنها را خودتان بسازید.” هیچ کس که یکی از طرفین توسعه ناموفق بوده است یا توسط یک طرح املاک و مستغلات متقلبانه پذیرفته شده است، فکر نمی‌کند که این پروژه برای آنها یا شهرداری‌شان بد باشد. متأسفانه، در دنیای توسعه اقتصادی، نمونه‌های زیادی از پروژه‌های با طراحی ضعیف، توصیه‌های وحشتناک، مدهای مربوط به املاک و مستغلات، و تقلب آشکار وجود دارد. ما به عنوان برنامه ریزان و توسعه دهندگان اقتصادی موظفیم در قبال مشتریان خود مشاوره و تحلیل درستی برای حفظ منافع شهرداری و در نهایت مالیات دهندگان ارائه دهیم. در این وبینار به بررسی چند پروژه شکست خورده می پردازیم که به وضعیت مالی شهرداری که آنها را متقبل شده اند آسیب رسانده و بررسی می کنیم که چه درس هایی می توانیم از این شرایط ناگوار بگیریم. “عاقل از اشتباهات دیگران درس می گیرد و احمق ها از اشتباهات خود.” –ضرب المثل قدیمی. “راه احمقان به نظر آنها درست است، اما خردمندان به نصیحت گوش می دهند.” – پادشاه سلیمان، حدود ۹۵۰ پس از میلاد

قسمتي از متن فيلم: Mode hello everyone and welcome to the webcast my name is Brittany kavinsky it is now 1 p.m. so we will begin our presentation shortly today on Friday June fourteenth we will have our presentation on what not to do lessons learned from the failure of others given by Andrew Murray for help during today’s

Webcast please feel free to type your questions in the chat box found in the webinar tool bar to the right of your screen or call one eight hundred 263 6317 for content questions please feel free to type those in the questions box and we will be able to answer those at

The end of the presentation during the question-and-answer session here’s a list of the sponsoring chapters divisions and universities I would like to thank all the participating chapters divisions and universities from making these webcasts possible as well as the economic development division for sponsoring today’s webcast as you can

See we have quite a few webcast plans for the summer to register for these upcoming webcasts please visit www webcast and register for your webcast of choice you can now follow us on twitter at planning webcast or like us on facebook planning webcast series to receive up-to-date information on the

Planning webcast series sponsored by chapters divisions and universities to log your cm credits for attending today’s webcast please go to ww planning org slash CM select today’s date which is Friday June fourteenth and then select today’s webcast which is what not to do lessons learn from the failure of

Others this webcast is available for one and a half cm credits we are also recording today’s webcast will be available on our YouTube channel later a day just search planning webcast on YouTube a PDF of the PowerPoint will be made available upon request at this time I would like to introduce Andy

Struck-off who will introduce our speaker for today Andrew Murray Thank You Brittany hi the one-minute sandy struck off associate directors PG&E planners in a member of the economic development division playing Association encourage you to go to the APA website and take a look at the divisions the divisions page and click

On the economic development divisions page and check out our blog and other events we have upcoming throughout the rest of the year and rumor is a project planet project manager with with pga be evenings going to tell you Lumas about some experiences we’ve had either directly or tangentially with projects

In the region that have failed to own reason another and lessons learned from those projects so that will hand it over to Andrew alright well thank you Andy thank you to everybody for attending today I’m hoping that this will be interesting and I encourage you if you have questions throughout the

Conversation that you just type them in that chat box and we’ll address those towards the end of the of the presentation so Andy and I and some other folks were sitting around we were talking about some of the the bad situation some of our clients and and

Some of the other things that have been in the news lately and we’re just thinking you know a lot of these folks are pretty smart people and they got themselves in some pretty bad situations and and and so we thought it would be helpful to kind of explore some of these

Case studies and perhaps you know we can learn something from the failure of others alright my contact information is up on the screen it’ll be up at the end of the presentation as well so here’s a couple of proverbs that I think are helpful the first one is sometimes

Attributed to mrs. Roosevelt but it’s learn from others mistakes can’t possibly live long enough to make them all yourself another old versus the wise learn from other people’s mistakes and fools from their own and then lastly King Solomon many many years ago said the way a fool seems

Right to them but the wise listen to advice so if i were to sum that up in social media terms i would say don’t be that guy alright so the world end 2013 i’m going to talk a little bit about some of the pressures that economic developers and planners face today I’ve

Noticed that many of the folks who are signed up for this webinar are municipal planners or municipal economic developers and most of not all of you will relate to some of these issues that that I’m going to talk about the next few slides so the first thing is is we

If if some has been asleep the last few years we’ve been in a pretty bad recession we’re coming out of it or technically out of it or we’re still feeling the effects of it and most importantly unemployment rates are still really really high especially historically and so there’s a lot of

Pressure I’m sure to create jobs whatever that means and to make sure that large employers or small employers or anybody who wants to start a business is able to come to your community and there’s a lot of pressure from politicians and from other folks to make sure that happens whatever that means so

That kind of goes hand in hand with some of these other things there’s also decreasing population and decreasing unemployment for some areas this is especially true and a lot of the rural communities we work in the population is aging or it’s moving to the city another thing we see there’s a decreasing return

On investment that goes for a lot of different situations you know the developers are are able to accept projects that are have a lower lower rate of return and so there’s just a lot of pressure to to see something still happen and it’s definitely definitely still an issue

I there’s also competition for retail so there’s not been a lot of retail growth in the last six seven years but the retail that does exist has sort of moved around so there’s a lot of competition especially if you’re in a metro area between municipalities there’s lower

Sales revenues so this chart here that I’ve got up shows that even though state revenues are going back up local revenues continue to fall a lot of this is due to you know property tax collections decreasing but also just continued lower sales taxes and then last couple things there’s an aging

Infrastructure in most of our communities that just requires a lot of money to keep up aging bridges you know we’ve had a couple of large bridge collapses in the last few years there’s there’s just a lot of aging issues going on and then lastly is overbuilt sprawl

So a member of the communities we work in they were they were built at the boom times and so they’re sort of overextended and I know a lot of the folks who are in Arizona and California Texas Florida places at Michigan places like that probably are experiencing this

Issue all right so as I was talking about our local sales taxes are not increasing they’re pretty much been flat since the recession and this is a real problem for a lot of municipalities that are dependent on these local sales taxes and so this creates a pressure to see

Projects happen to see job creation happy to see retailers come to your city or to steal retailers from your neighbors and so this is a this is a chart that I pulled just this week that shows that pretty much been flat all right it’s a success one in aging infrastructure I recommend that

Everybody check out strong towns org there’s a really great guy named Chuck who runs that site and he talks about sort of the what he calls the Ponzi scheme of growth I know the APA’s had him on numerous different times and a lot of state state chapters had him he’s fantastic and

There’s a couple quotes here i’m going to read off that talk about aging infrastructure and this creates a pressure on communities also to see projects happen so the society of civil engineers reported 2008 that the nation’s infrastructure is needs a 2.2 million dollars in repairs over the next

Five years and to put that in perspective that’s twenty nine thousand dollars for a family of floor just to catch up that was a few years ago obviously also he’s from minnesota and he talks about how there’s sixty five billion dollars needed and transportation projects over the next 20

Years so this these are real issues that our communities are facing that put pressure on on us to to make these deals happen whatever whatever they might be another thing that’s going on this is sort of a host of problems that are interconnected there’s the decreasing state and local money most

Municipalities have seen their community development block grants decreased over the last ten years pensions are up so a lot of municipalities where they have a large pension responsibility that oftentimes is is not sustainable and then just unfunded mandates given down from the federal and state governments

This is just you know as the money gets shorts and short supply the buckets past just this week The Wall Street Journal noted that the state of Illinois which we can pick on for in Missouri that they’re in a really bad situation they’ve got basically a hundred billion

Dollar shortfall in their pension system and the the their credit actually getting downgraded in danger of being downgraded below a which is first time a state has been in that situation since California was almost ten years ago all right so you know I guess the moral of the story is

That smart people make bad decisions so there’s a little quote there on the side that says everything happens for a reason but sometimes the reason is that you’re stupid and you make bad decisions and I know you know it’s funny and it’s maybe a little mean but the the reality

Of the situation is all of these case studies that we’re going to discuss today you know these people these people for the most part weren’t stupid they’re educated folks they thought they knew what they were doing there’s people just like you and I they they don’t necessarily you know is something that

We can easily do ourselves so I think I just want to make sure that as we’re going through these that we may chuckle at some of these disasters schemes that folks have tried to do or seen happen to their communities but you know it’s not really funny it’s um it could happen in

Your community and you need to make sure that you’re doing the best for your for your client or for your for your tax payers and so I just want to make sure as we go through these that we realized that these are smart people who’ve made these bad mistakes so the reason why

People make these decisions for host of reasons but a couple of them up their budget pressures we talked about political pressures you’ve got a mayor or you’ve got a county executive or somebody who’s leaning on you pretty hard to see to see a deal happen you

Know people get caught up in the emotion of the moment the prize that they have in the community or you know their own personal pride as an economic developer you want to say oh I brought two hundred million dollars worth of advancement to the community in the last five years or

Whatever it is oftentimes you know people get bad information or incomplete information they get poor advice sometimes from very high paid consultants and lastly people just don’t do their due diligence they don’t do their homework and they’re lazy and so all that often x equals a bad decision

So I’m going to go through these case studies this first ones one of our more spectacular ones that we’ve had happen here in in Missouri oh yeah before we do that and East English I should probably do a pull so real quickly before I go through this brittany has a pole for us

If you could pull that up Brittany then we’ll go ahead and take that before we move on all right it’s up now ok so the pole the pool talked about your level of experience with economic development and I just kind of want to get an idea folks

Out there who are listening if they’ve had quite a bit of experience with economic development or and incentives or if they’ve had a limited experience that will help me as I go through and make sure I don’t you know go to high over anybody’s head or makes it too

Basic okay we have about 75% of people’s votes in we have the majority fifty-four percent have somewhat a limited working knowledge thirty-two percent said very they feel that they know enough to be dangerous seven percent said extremely and seven percent said not at all okay great so it sounds like folks are pretty

Much in the middle of the road here so i’ll go ahead and continue on then on our our case study so i think that’s that’s helpful alright so this is a this is a case study that was very spectacular politically charged situation that we had here in missouri

Over the last few years the our state Department of Economic Development it got some inquiries from a Chinese company that made artificial sweeteners or we supposedly made artificial sweeteners and they approach the stage part of economic development looking for a site to develop this state of the yard artificial sweetener plant that was

Going to hire six hundred people it sounded like an awesome awesome exciting opportunity there were three different communities here in Missouri all you know in the range of 10,000 20,000 people in populations that competed for this moberly the city of moberly one selection over leaves a small town kind

Of out on the Prairie 13,000 people and they they went for this they they got advice from the state to go for it and they use their development authority their industrial development authority to issue almost 40 million dollars in bonds to pay for the construction of this

Plant the plant was like I said going to be state of the art and the the bonds were backed by intellectual property rights for the I guess the patents on the artificial sweetener and the purported value of those patents with 50 million dollars the state pledged 17 million dollars in incentives now those

Incentives were tied to they were tied to the requirement that the plane actually open and it employs 600 people and the city of moberly however didn’t didn’t really have a way to back these bonds they couldn’t really get them issued without providing a guarantee so that the deal was moberly ma’am check

Was going to pay moberly four million dollars annually and then moberly was going to pay their Industrial Development Authority the same amount and then the dustrial development ority was going to pay the bondholders well bad things happen so this situation was a total disaster the plant did not

Happen construction started but was not completed and come to find out there was actually no Chinese artificial sweetener plant or at least known to date been able to find a reputable source that says there is one there the intellectual property that the city acquired through this default but was worth basically

Nothing and the consequently ma’am Tech was not able to make their payments to the city which did make the payments to the development authority which subsequently defaulted on the bonds 40 million dollars with the bond the man tech CEO was it was indicted for fraud there was a lot of blame that was

Thrown around you know the put Missouri Department on film and playing the city the city blades them they blamed their attorneys who blamed mam tech who blamed the you know their attorneys once again so it was just there’s a lot of blame to go around and the that the unfortunate

Situation was that moberly basically was stuck with the bill on this so one of the big quotes in this whole debacle was in the paper missouri department of economic development officials said starting to sound a bit fishy unfortunately this was like a year before the plant even started and the

Bonds were issued so there were there were serious doubts that that folks had in this deal that they didn’t necessarily raise or giving broadcast very well and the city of moberly in defaulting on these loans said the city’s taxpayers and there’s these circumstances should not bear the burden

Of man text failures or be asked to bail out their shareholders or investors see the deal was is that these four million dollar payment is was roughly equal to moberly the annual budget and so there was no way that moberly can make these payments if ma’am Tex defaulted and the

Bond market saw New York Times quotes the thing that the bond market basically viewed this as the city default and even though it was their Industrial Development Authority and they reduced their credit to junk status all right so what are some lessons we can learn from

From mantech one thing I think is that you know the the bond attorneys and a lot of the the folks that were involved in this were very intelligent people they’re the best of the best the trustee bank was one of the top banks here in st. Louis

For these sorts of deals these were people that knew what they were doing but it doesn’t necessarily protect you from fraud or from negligence second thing is don’t assume everybody else is doing the due diligence you know there nobody checked out to see if that plant existed there were some attempts made

But ultimately nobody made sure that that this this was a legitimate company third thing is the city pledged its full faith and credit to back these obligations something that we typically and let us build a century we we really discourage our clients here at pj v planners from from from doing that sort

Of thing it just puts the city on the hook for somebody else’s irresponsible actions and height of any struggle just adding one thing one interesting I know about this deal to that once the city of overly decided to pledge it’s so bad and credit to the bonds the the Fulton vault

Relaxed 30 diligence a little bit rude with respect to mantech and focused instead on the creditworthiness of the city as the backup sort of payer for the bonds right so they stopped even looking at mantech they just started looking at seeing how strong the city’s facing credit was and you know basically said

Well does that he could pay on this for a hundred years and they would if they hadn’t defaulted so I also also yours even if your state departments and economic development says it’s a good deal don’t necessarily assume that they’ve you know if it’s you on the line

Make sure that you you do your due diligence as well and then also if it’s too good to be true you know your mom said so alright second case study this is a small community fairly fairly wealthy community here in st. Louis metro area this was a this is a deal

Actually that we helped the city on unfortunately they didn’t take our advice on number of fronts so what happens happened but I want to put it up here as sort of a lessons learned the there was a developer who who saw the city’s economic development plan

That there was an opportunity for a on a high-traffic corner to do something pretty special and so he this developer wanted to build a 184 million dollar lifestyle center was going to be anchored by a company that sells been bought out by macys large department store and some other some other major

Tenants and it was on this corner but the the catch was that there were three hundred properties including 200 plus homes fairly expensive homes on 67 acres so the city really wanted to see this happen because it was it was a great intersection there’s a lot of money that

Was planned and promised and so not only did the city offer to do a tax increment financing district they also offered to support the developer and use eminent domain to buy out any sort of stragglers who work who didn’t want to sell so things car started off fairly well even

Though it was a pretty ambitious project the developer was able to acquire ninety-one percent of the parcels but the developer was sued by a few of the a few of the landowners in there those landowners were it’s rumored bankrolled by a large mall just down the street

Which didn’t want to see a competing development come in and so the developer was sued unfortunately he had made some mistakes in putting together his his development scheme and he’d also made all the people including us who work for him to get a confidentiality a sign a confidentiality agreement so they were

Unable to testify 22 they were unable to defi to the guy guess the financial feasibility of the project in the redevelopment plan to the extent that they needed to in order to sort of button it down basically the courts throughout the tip which made it to where the developer couldn’t get their

Financing they developer subsequently failed to close on 200 200 homes that had already had buyout contracts signed many the homeowners had were stocked with second mortgages because they had already moved and bought other homes assuming that the deal was going to go through some folks had actually gutted

That the houses and taking out the appliances and the AC units and all that and the upshot was that the nice subdivision was left severely deteriorated and that the home on our occupancy rate dropped from 70 to fifty percent it was pretty much the opposite

Of what the city wanted to see happen on that corner so a couple of lessons we can learn from this particular sad situation is that it was a little too ambitious the the city was advised by us and others that it was the developer was too too ambitious and that it was

Dependent on too many things happening just so the the second thing I think I would say is don’t put your citizens at the mercy of a developer who’s not thought through all the different alternative scenarios so if this deal doesn’t happen what are you going to be

Left with at the end of the day and the very unfortunate thing in this situation is that even though the city didn’t back at Full Faith and Credit the city didn’t lose money on the deal they they sort of what their citizens sort of made their citizens hostage to the situation and

Even though you could blame the homeowners for taking out second mortgages and for gutting their properties before they had actually sold them which is obviously foolish they were kind of led by the city of the developer suitably that the project was a done deal all right here’s my favorite this

Is one of my communities that I work in that we’ve been helping to sort of get out of the situation that they’re in I’ve changed the name of the community because they don’t want to embarrass them and they it’s a great community but one that made some pretty bad decisions

So this community is in a growing part of the state that seemed a lot of boom happen especially pre-recession during this time there was a really active Main Street group downtown that really wanted they cared about their community they really wanted to take advantage of some of the growth that was happening and

They really wanted to see their downtown just prosper and grow and so this active group of citizens looking to revitalize their community they had a Charette process a lot of public involvement they drew some amazing pictures came up with a new urbanist vision for their community they had designed condo that

Overlooked this beautiful river they had a lifestyle center and visions that was going to be walkable and cutting edge and it was going to be amazing they got all the politicians and officials gone board they got their extend lined up they pledged TIFF and said tax abatements whatever else they could they

Could throw out the thing and and then some pretty bad mistakes were made so the city failed to acquire all the parcels in this property there was a big fight over whether or not to use eminent domain there were five parcels right in the middle of this big area that didn’t

Want to sell and you can see the picture there of part of the couple what was one of the homeowners who was angry about their house being potentially eminent domain so these folks refused to sell which made the property difficult to develop the the city

Decided not to use them at the main to to require those parcels because it was politically toxic the city in the meantime took out multiple loans turtle totaling four million dollars for the require all this property they then demolished all of the buildings and then in late two thousand seven the developer

Who was also ironically the architect went to banks to try and get alone this is late two thousand seven on this very very ambitious process a progress project the banks laughed at them and they weren’t able to get alone the project was cancelled the city tried to sue the developer architect and recoup

Some money but they had nothing to stand on and essentially they were left holding the bag they are currently paying almost half a million dollars in annual interest and principal payments and they’ve been paying that since 2007 and this is for a city that is about 15,000 people so some lessons from this

Fortunate situation the city failed I would say to hire respected attorneys and planners that specialized in this redevelopment process so i think that caveat is really important because you can hire nice people you can hire well qualified people but if they aren’t well qualified for what you’re trying to do

They they may be the wrong people to hire in this case i would argue that it was they also failed to get a redevelopment agreement with protection so when they acquire these properties and set up to steal with his developer there was no protections for them especially they they assumed all of the

Risk for the development the city was essentially acting as their own developer third thing is they I would say make sure you have political support to use em as if you need a mint domain to complete the project so if you have a couple of properties that if you don’t acquire

Them and everybody else says that they want to do the project you need to make sure that your political will is out there to do eminent domain most people aren’t big fans of eminent dabane I’m not personally a big fan of eminent domain but you know there are situations

Where if there’s one holdout is asking for two million dollars for their you know $50,000 home that maybe maybe you need to use it or maybe you need to not do the project and lastly don’t move until financing closes so the city demolished all of these properties

Before they had any kind of financing in place and so now you know the land that they took out loan for was worth four million dollars it was recently appraised without houses for 1.6 million dollars so they essentially owe more than double what they paid yeah they owe

More than double what the assessed value of their properties all right recently I’m sure a lot of you read it there was a great series in the New York Times about incentives and how they’re used and kind of how these deals from these deals work there there was a great

Article that was written that goes into detail on a number of different deals and states and that sort of thing the article came out in December 2012 and I’ve got a I’ve got it listed in my resources I’d recommend everybody check it out it’s called the United States and

Subsidies this is a case study that came from that that I think is somewhat helpful so a lot of municipalities they they have four years chase smokestacks so they’re looking for the next manufacturing play and the next car plant the next you know oil refinery whatever it would be to

Come to their community and bring a lot of jobs and in a lot of cases that’s it that’s a great thing for a small community especially if you can get some good quality high paying jobs in a particular case of General Motors for years General Motors has has played one

Community off of another in trying to get these plans established and in this is the particular case of Michigan communities there are there are a lot of sort of bad stories to be told so in this particular case the city granted two hundred million dollars in investments over a number of years the

First factory closed in 1990s and the city tried to sue to try and recoup some of those incentives unfortunately as they lost they had they had some clawback provisions in there but they weren’t enforceable so I would I would sort of note that if our municipality that not clawback provisions aren’t

Always enforceable make sure that there are legally enforceable the second plant closed in 2010 and subsequently GM was bailed out by the federal taxpayers so and they went bankrupt and then this town ended up with the highest foreclosure rate in the country this is sad tale the second tale is true from

Shreveport Louisiana the article goes into detail about this the folks in tree for really wanted to get a car plant to town GM said well we don’t have you know an electric car plants that we’re wanting to to site in your community but will excite a Hummer factory and despite

The protestations of the community and that sort of misgivings of it being a you know sort of backward-looking technology not a forward-looking technology the the city agreed and they they put up subsidies to get that that to happen obviously he was known by Hummers anymore and the plant closed and

The city was sort of left holding the bag on this plant that’s basically obsolete for any sort of useful purpose you know this is a great quote in the article new york times article from the city attorney says you just can’t make these promises and throw them around

Like they’re spare change in the drawer and he’s talking about the the promise is that the company made in order to get the incentives for the project and you know i guess i tell the city attorney yeah they can make empty promises and they can take your company for a ride so

You know make sure that you’re you’re protected alright so those are some cases or some really bad things that have happened to communities that you obviously don’t want to happen to your community but i want to talk for a few minutes about what we can do to protect our clients or municipalities or

Taxpayers from making these these poor mistakes montgomery county maryland recently put out a great report that was a review of their economic development instead of programs and i really recommend anybody check this report out if you if you need a copy of it feel free to contact me and i can send you

The right spot or send you a copy it’s from februari of this year and in this report it’s one of the they talk about some best practices to maximizing effectiveness of your incentive programs and i’m going to talk about these sort of categories in a brief sense so so

Bear with me for a few minutes so the first thing that they talk about is make sure that you align your incentives with it a clearly articulated economic development strategy so make sure that you’ve got goals that are set up for maximizing deccan development potential of your community

And you want to make sure that that you know if you’re calling for high wage job creation that you you have the ability to provide the workforce for high paying jobs and you want to make sure that you you have a strategy and a plan so that

As people come to your community you can see if what if their plans as a business line up with what you want to see happen in your community and then you’re not dependent on the whims and wells of whatever developer comes to town so selling whether the snake oil or you

Know or something actually good the second thing is make sure you conduct a cost-benefit analysis to see if we provide us in incentives and we support this project with taxpaying taxpayer dollars that we are going to get the a benefit that is at least the same as the

Incentive or greater so you need to hire somebody who is competent if you don’t have somebody on your staff to really make that assessment and not rely on the figures and facts that the developer gets to you the third thing is make sure that your incentives align with business

Needs so you know make sure that if the developer pulls out that what you got out of the deal will be useful for your community so for example instead of just making a cash payment to the developer or giving the tax abatement or a sale tax rebate perhaps you offer to build

The road or perhaps you offer to expand the airport or or to put in utilities or perhaps you offer to train a workforce for them so that when they don’t come to town that you are left with some useful things for your community some infrastructure or some some well trained

Workers whatever the case might be fourth thing is make sure that in your deal you include clear performance standards mechanisms for monitoring performance and penalties in case there’s a bridge of calm contract and the agreements and as I mentioned before you know if you do a clawback with

Commonly referred to as a clawback make sure that’s enforceable so you really need to have a qualified attorney not just your local city attorney but somebody who knows these incentive programs depending on your state and can evaluate them correctly and make sure that whatever penalties that you have in

There are enforceable should the developer pull out and I also say there is oftentimes as the developer goes bankrupt which happens in these cases you know you you may not be able to get anything out of the developer so so definitely keep that in mind and make

Sure that you know you’re putting your putting the kinds of clawback provisions in there that you’ll need for your community so a few those might include making a requirement on a certain number of jobs making a requirement of a certain amount of investment requiring the project to be substantially complete

By a certain date or requiring the developer to meet certain performance measures whatever the case might might be in that in that situation and there’s some great resources on developing those and I’ll list those at the end of my presentation the that the Council of development financing agencies have some

Great resources as well as the International Economic Development Council IDC has some great resources at all but always at the end of the presentation all right so the last thing I would say make sure that you update your incentive programs regularly so a value wait to make sure that your plan meets

The you know meets your your goals and your objectives as of today and make sure that whatever incentive requirements that you have are actually getting me what you want and if anybody needs some useful resources on developing and economic development policy I would highly recommend documents that the government finance

Officers association has put out that talks about how to do that and I’ll have that at the end of the presentation as well all right so a few thoughts here to wrap up I would say that no deal is better than a bad deal when I first

Moved to the state of Missouri there were there were two projects on the books one for Kansas City and one for st. Louis and if anyways from Missouri they know there’s a rivalry between our two large metro areas and the the city of Kansas City developed this power and

Light district in their downtown beautiful district it’s a great it’s a great location and they in order to make the deal work this is pre-recession they agreed to to back see the project with general obligations and unfortunately the the project has not met the revenue projections that it was supposed to me

And the city is paying 15 million dollars every year on the shortfall on this project and that’s in addition to another project they’re paying five million dollars on so that’s almost 20 million dollars in you know in money that they’re expending annually on nothing and they have a great project in

Their downtown but it’s costing the taxpayers a lot of money in contrast saying Louis had a the Cardinals baseball team had to site right next to the stadium that they were going to turn into what they called Ballpark Village same develop Kansas City they was working on a at a

Firm that was evaluating this project and we we advised the city not to back it with with general obligations and the city decided not to bakit with general obligations to not paid out of not pay a shortfall out of any sort of funds and the project never happened and it

Remained a big hole in the ground and the city was mocked up woodside down the other for failing to make this project happen but at the end of the day you know the taxpayers were put on the hook for any sort of development and in retrospect they definitely would have

They would have been in the same situation as Kansas City so you know I guess my argument in this case that situation would be no no deal is better than a bad deal and you may have a beautiful development but if you’re paying if you’re paying millions and

Millions of dollars every year for the I guess the privilege of having that development it may not be worth your time second thing is as planners we really have the obligation to look out for the public even in the face of political pressure and I mentioned that in ballpark village I mentioned that

Some of these other situations I know a lot of municipal planners and economic developments get leaned on pretty hard by their mayor’s they’re they’re Ford’s their politicians to make sure that something happens maybe maybe there’s some influential people in town the note the developer and they want to see the

Project happen and so you know it’s our responsibility according to our aicp code of ethics to make sure that we do the best work and we look out for the interests of the public and not just arch our jobs or the political winds and Will’s of our community third I’d say

Doodle jump is really responsibility yeah you know no one’s going to look at this besides you and I think you need to take that that approach next I’d say make sure you base your decisions on facts not emotions you know a deal’s look great if you’ve ever shopped for a

Used car you know that as soon as the as soon as the salesman knows that you really really want that car the price is not going to come down so i guess as much as you can separate yourself from the emotional component that’s all the better for your community

If it’s too good to be true it probably is you know that’s I know it’s a cliche but it really is true it’s only so many situations that that that is absolutely the case and then lastly I’d say make sure you get whatever whatever is promised to you whatever you are under

The oppression is going to happen make sure you get in and writing and the redevelopment agreement or a development agreement or some sort of legally binding document and make sure you get it with the right with the right between the right parties and it’s really important to hire the correct attorneys

And as much as I know folks don’t like hiring attorneys and spending a lot of money it’s definitely worth it and i would say whenever you can make sure you pass those costs of hiring that attorney on to your developer i know when we do

TIF districts and we do a lot of them here at pj v we require we encourage our municipalities to require the developer to pay for all the planning and all the legal costs and they roll that into their tax increment financing bond and that just keeps the it protects the city

From being on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal and planning costs for a project that never happened all right so I’m going to list a few a few resources here that i already mentioned strong towns i really recommend you check out the site read

Everything on it great stuff talks about you know the cost of development costs of sprawl the cost of accepting deals that will look good in the first ten years that maybe even 50 years don’t turn out to be such a great financial investment for the community i would

Check out the montgomery county’s recent economic development centers program analysis I can get you a copy of that google it or if somebody wants to contact me directly i’ll send you a copy look at developing an economic incentive policy that i mentioned the government finance officers association flip this out in

۲۰۰۸ I think it’s still really good I think it’s something that pretty much every community should have CDFA has put out a really good tax increment financing best practices guide and they also put out an advanced version of that in 2009 if you really are interested in learning more about taxing for Ann

Financing and some best practices there IDC puts out really great stuff that one of their one of their great reports is knowledge is power it talks about working with site selectors and gives a lot of good best practices for for doing that a lot of these projects involve

Site selection agencies and brokers and that sort of thing check out the United States of some of these new york times and then i also recommend to you the APA economic development tool box which is on the aps website and as Andy mentioned there’s a there’s some good information

On the economic development section website on the APA website all right so I’m going to leave up my contact information and before I opened it to questions I want to see if Andy has any any additional boxes to add all right so we’re done a few minutes early but I

Want to open it up to questions unless you have anything else okay great your first question comes in from John how do you block or bar a developer from future considerations if they announced a project from a federal fund sponsor before their proposal was even considered the honey buttons future

Consideration they sort of look accounted for yeah I mean this is a tactic that some people will do because then they the developer you know basically puts the city over a barrel on and they’re trying to pull in the political I basically get the political winds to blow again staff so they’ll pit

They’ll fit the public and the politicians against you know well thinking and you know responsible planning and economic development staff right there’s always the best one that they’re playing a PR game to write it there the developer when they are the developer yet so you guys stay in front

Of them and say well you know as soon as the applications approvable consider them but not committing the city before they need to be committed you know and this is this is this is tricky because you’ve got to make sure that your you’ve got a supportive whether it be bored of

All of them in City Council you know County Commission whatever it be I think you definitely block them from consideration for incentives in the future you know even if not officially you could definitely look with sort of limited finger on any future yeah there could be respondents proposals it could

Be an administrative decision on the part of the city particularly if they don’t have any ownership of the property in question the ownership of property question it might be a little more difficult because when you’re trying to restrict them from various uses on my property but you know if it’s just an application

Stage that kind of depends if it’s a request for proposal situation or if it’s actually just a developer who own the site who’s wanting to you know to submit or incentives package okay our next question comes in from Alyssa um she says that they have a similar situation going on in Rockland County

New York where citizens could end up being on the hook for up to 60 million in costs related to a project and it also seems to have resulted in a recent FBI raid on the Town Hall so how can planners and related organizations help ensure that people and officials

Actually learn something from these kind of events oh I wish I wish people did learn from me yeah you know I mean we leave we stopped working for some clients to be really honest that that I’m are acting unethically or illegally and you know you can only do so much in

Your real limited role but i think it’s with any kind of whistleblower situation if you’re a planner and you’re in a situation you know if you’re working for that community that gets raided by the FBI you know maybe maybe you want to start looking for another job you know

But i think the APA needs to be you know make sure that we would follow our code of ethics as we you know when these things happen is as a planning community that we make sure we we stand out against them because really those sorts of situations give tips and other

Tenants really a bad name and you’ll run into this all the time at public meetings where citizens are are angry and maybe legitimately so for bad decisions that that the municipality or the county is made of cast hope it ends are so cool alright our next question comes in from James can

You discuss the problem of companies selling the asset to a second company and then that company goes bankrupt right that this happens with kiss oftentimes I would say make sure that in your goes back to your development agreement or your redevelopment agreement that you have you know

Provisions in there too to require them to require approval for them to sell those assets on to a second company or subsidiary or to another LLC and make sure that you kind of retain those rights and that may depend on from state to state on whether or not they’re able

To do that but to the extent that you can protect yourself legally I would make sure you have good counsel from a legal perspective on that any of you have anything else to going to give it that and particularly if you know if bonds already been issued on a project

That the developers ourselves the underlying asset or you know the credit for the bonds or the vent risk any risk with respect to that transaction is risk felt by the bondholders about the city so long as the city or county doesn’t back those bonds of their general

Revenues I think that goes back to the point of don’t you know don’t put your your general don’t cosign the loan basically a TRO city um if you can all at all help it I mean it’s just it’s just if it’s that risky that they can’t

Get a bond issue then that means it’s a risky deal and that means that you may be on the hook for paying a lot of money down the road that you don’t want to okay um this question comes in from Wesley can you give us the location of

The st. Louis City Development that failed Oh ballpark village I Ballpark Village is right next to the cardinal stadium downtown downtown st. Louis and actually kind of ironically it’s um it’s getting built now there’s a there’s massive markets turned around it’s right next to the stadium narula concept it was

Supposed to have been completed in 2009 in time for the all-star games and we didn’t have them if it just literally just our construction now as we speak and and to add to irony Andy and I worked on that deal a long time ago when we’re at a different firm dad to the

Irony our company is now working on the Cardinals Hall of Fame Museum which is which is in that development and so we’re just now starting to see some cool things happen on that site but the city had to wait basically because the city wouldn’t back with general obligations

They had to wait another four years for the development happen right we’re getting a project that’s much much smaller than originally envisioned yeah I was supposed to be condo high-end condos this is during the boom is supposed to be high-end residential condos and office towers and you know

Sort of a live entertainment arts district and that that may happen in ten years it may not I don’t know okay um this one comes in from gym how frequently do you see states providing incentives to companies before the local unit of government is even aware of it

You know that that just depends on the politics of the state and if he depends on the company involved it is a company that’s already in the state they’ll start the local community and the local committee will engage the state farm economic development and put together an incentive package to keep that company

In town if it’s a company from out of state entertaining what the project is they may hit you know both simultaneously or they may start at the state level easily it also depends on the kind incentives that they want if they wanted more of a real estate incentive they’ll start

Locally if they want more like a tax credit for their jobs for the jobs will create course they want some sort of state now get Missouri a state income tax rebate and they’ll start at the state level right so it’s like Boeing or you know a car plants or something like

That it’s going to be Google Twitter how somebody like that it’s going to be a much higher level of discussions but I know that that really irks municipalities to have the state sort of override them and in the case of mantech you know the state the state was approached initially and they funneled

Ultimately this fraudulent group to these local communities which sort of gave this fraud a kind of state-sponsored feel to it so even though that was the case that it wasn’t that the state was sponsoring it it’s just that because it came through the state manchek kinda closed itself in a

Sort of but you know a state well they wrap themselves in credibility by havering of having a former governor of the state of missouri stock form right yeah yeah okay all right this question comes in from Alyssa what is the look what what if the local government is not supportive or any tips

If the local government is not supportive of any kiss oh sorry any tips if your local government is not supportive help helpful hints oh yes we do with that a lot more it seems like I’m skeptical in in general about tax increment financing because you know

Maybe they’ve seen a project go for the wrong way or maybe they just philosophically disagree with it you know if your state has any other tools I can achieve a similar goal you can explore those and for example in state of Missouri you can use tax vaina in conjunction with a special taxing

District a camellia proven district or transportation development district you compare those strategies to get a similar impact to the tip district but without as much of an impact to the city of Chinese revenue going forward and potentially you know generally I think it’s what municipalities really need to

Understand it is the benefit going forward if it’s a good project then the maybe it’s truly a good projects the city of the kind of we better off over the long run with the TIF district in place and we run into a lot of sort of misunderstanding about what tiff is you

Know tiff people think that TIF involves the city writing a large check to a developer and it just that isn’t the case that the project has to happen and perform and then the monies that are raised through taxes on that project go back into the project and only then and

Only then does the developer get paid unless you back it with general obligations which we argue you know for our clients not to do but you know abusive tip or misunderstanding of TIFF has generated a lot of false ideas I thought about what it is and no it’s a

Lot of its education you know it helps clear policy meo procedure for for engaging test projects for reviewing them engaging the developer on them a lot of the communities where we see a position at if they don’t have any policy with which they can even start process considering it tip application

In communities that do have a clear process or committee set up to review those kinds of applications I think they’re able to understand the process love better and also another thing that we strong it’s a it’s required by a lot of states but we even if it’s not

Encourage people you know you need to look at what this project happened without the tip as it would happen without tip financing then you don’t need to have a tip for the project and just because you know Walmart or Target or whoever it is comes to your town and

Says we need a tip for this project to happen you don’t necessarily have to believe them you know I mean run the numbers and see if it would and make sure that it’s you know they’re telling the truth do your cost benefit analysis all right and this question comes from

Daniel um why not just make all incentives performance-based a little risk to the city yeah yeah I think it’s a great plan I mean I you know I obviously there’s Devils in the details on that the thing the one thing I guess I would I would counsel is when you’re putting together

Something like this make sure that through your your discussions that you don’t make it difficult for the developer to get tenants so I guess what I’m trying to say is we have some communities where they wanted to know all the tenants that are signed up but

In order for the 10th to sign up they need to know what the incentive is and that the project and that project is actually going to happen so I would say yes do performance measures requirements but you can you can pledge at least on paper that you’re going to do you

Provide the incentives in theory and then just make sure that when you actually draft your redevelopment agreement that you you’ve put those provisions in there and that they haven’t weaseled out of getting them implemented in your redevelopment agreement yeah and i would say that any real estate tax based incentives that

Can be monetized or it could be the revenue stream that’s created can be you know bonds can be issued against a revenue stream i think is an inherently performance base because the developers only able to bond as much revenue as they create with their project so they

At the outset say they needed to commit up million dollar tip but they only create 30 million dollars and really create enough valued sponsor two million dollars and let’s all that they get ms you know yeah and that goes back to not not pledging the city’s obligation to the bond

Alright and this question comes in from Wesley recently the court ruled in favor of the developer of the city of st. Louis Northside redevelopment moving forward do you know the status of this project there’s a story in paper a couple weeks ago saying day he’s developers planning to start

Construction of this fall on part of the north side project yeah when i worked at i worked for a firm that worked for the city we we evaluated that project on behalf of the city the city once again didn’t take on any risk for that project

It for those folks who aren’t from st. Louis or the Midwest it’s a it’s a huge huge TIF district in part of our town that is largely abandoned and part of the inner city that that is has very little left they’re structurally there’s a few few homes lost in a few scattered

Businesses and this this tiff with the size to give folks an idea is the size of a ward so you know andy says it’s a thousand acres so a huge huge tip and the city was pressured by the developer to back the project with general obligations the city refused the

Developer decided to go ahead anyway i was tied up in court for a couple years but the Supreme state state Supreme Court just ruled in favor as a developer so the project as far as i know is moving forward I don’t know once again because the city doesn’t have any money

On the hook it’s it whatever whatever development he causes the developer causes to happen will well he gets paid when that happens so sort of you know it behooves him to make something happen there whether or not it will happen I suppose it’s anybody’s guess but what we’ll see

Next question comes in from Carter his city was working with a national retail developer to redevelop an older mall subsequent to agreements with the developer they were sued for projects in other parts of the country which has frozen their project how do you protect against that that’s a tough situation I

Would wonder I make it as a what point in the project implementation your ad is that they haven’t met like you have a redevelopment agreement to define certain steps that they have to meet in order to keep the red loan agreements active and valid when I suggest

Reviewing that if they haven’t met or hit their benchmarks essentially validate that redevelopment agreement and open them all up for different developers so as I think having protections and the redevelopment agreement or qualitative agreement whatever you call it is important so that you have benchmarks and evening

That so that they aren’t that the developer some reason gets frozen because they’re under litigation then you can essentially kick them out in favor and open the project up to another developer yeah and that’s a that’s kind of a weird situation because you know oh I guess that that would make people

Nervous about that developer the fact that one project will impact another you know because theoretically is financing should be independent for each project so hey I don’t know it sounds a little fishy but I guess I’d have to know what the details are on that alright and this question comes in from

James the secondary impact of factory closures or housing demo is a large reduction on taxes town should be careful of dependence on a large taxpayer it’s it’s a little bit more of a comment feeling response yeah absolutely i mean the two cases i put up there with GM and the reason why I

Pulled those is is that there’s a lot of communities that you know we’re dependent on their our company towns and you know I think I think it’s important to make sure that you’re as a community or investing in education you’re investing in you know making sure your your workforce is well-rounded and and

And you’re encouraging you know business incubators and job creation at a smaller level so that you’re not necessarily dependent on that one big business that comes into town that’s easier said than done sometimes but that it really is a great comment ok question comes in from David and this is

Regard in regards to mantic he says it just seems fundamental to verify that the plant existed in China did the city and its consultants in the state I’ll assume it existed did anybody make an effort to verify and if so and they couldn’t verify wouldn’t that raise a

Big red flag you know that’s the question everybody’s been asking but yeah I this seems fairly fundamental you know there were several there were several different attorneys and consultants that were passed with flying out the plans existed and there were sort of each time they looked into it it

Sounded like there might been been one or there was one under construction but then zoning issues caused to close or something they never really got a clear answer and the the bond attorneys looked into it the state looked into it but ultimately nobody sort of really like the questions that the question

Questioner asks is why didn’t somebody raised the red flag there I think that’s a great question I think that was sort of raised but sort of in a hurry to get the deal done and because it was such a great deal for the community I think people were willing to overlook basic

Facts because they wanted to see it happen and as Andy pointed out as soon as the city pledged its revenues to pay off the bonds the attorneys the bond attorneys stopped looking at mantech and they started looking just to see it they looked at the creditworthiness of the

City instead of mantic so yeah it’s it’s a great example of even if you hire your expensive folks they may not do their job there’s a lot of blame to go around everybody from the governor’s office down to the city and it’s just it’s an unfortunate situation

Okay and this question comes in from sherry what complainers do to draw attention to the connection between land use and economic sustainability that’s a great question well I I think that’s something that planners haven’t done well in my opinion we we there there seems to be this broken connection

Between market forces and economic development and the profession of planning and that’s a little bit of a harsh statement but and it’s not always true but it often times it’s true i think the municipalities and their staff don’t always understand the development and how it works and developers consequently also don’t understand that

The city is looking out for sort of the greater good and not just their project and so the question is you know the connection between land use economic development i think in your comprehensive plan and your long-range strategic plans and your you know your your land use plans your laundry

Transportation plans you need to look at what what that connection might be and I think as a planning profession just you know speaking for myself that is really how we need to reinvent ourselves is you know as we get tea party push back on our profession we need to start talking

About how good planning and effective use of resources and sustainable use of resources is what we do as planners and that involves using land well and protecting the public from from bad uses of land I think part of that is understanding the red new landscape associated land uses so your

Municipality understanding how much value you have and the parcels and land uses in your jurisdiction what those businesses are how much tax revenue they create so you’re making decisions on future development proposed from the developer if they’re looking at relocating or buying existing says and in favor of some some new

Development team compared in what if you’re gaining tax revenue if you’re losing tax revenue and so you make a decision that that is in the interest new plan Joe interests your community which is an important consideration and also you know I strong towns had some great analysis on their site about how

Just building infrastructure can actually cost you more in the long run and so you know I think land use planning can also do that as well so you need to make even need to make sure there’s plenty of situations of communities that have zoned large areas and made infrastructure commitments to

Large areas that they couldn’t support my long run and so you need to make you need to do what Andy just said and look at the the actual market analysis and see if if it’s actually going to be a benefit to your community to develop green fields or or it’s actually going

To cost you more in the long run all right this question comes in from James are there any examples of municipalities counties or states agreeing to share taxes to avoid location competition um the one I know of is that people always talk about on a regional level is

Minneapolis i I don’t know of others right off the top of my head I know there’s been a lot of proposals here in the Midwest in in st. Louis to do that when the principles here in our office had worked on some legislation here in st. Louis County we have we have there’s

Two types of communities there’s some that share that join this revenue pool and then there’s some that collect separately I think that’s probably the case and other communities as well I don’t know if you know Andy off the top of your head of any other now we know that’s right same as County

This sales tax revenue sharing among municipalities anglers County so that something you to have less retailed in other communities still receive in a certain amount of sales tax that they otherwise wouldn’t but you can opt in or out to join that and so it creates this sort of goofy setup yeah administrative

Leave this is kind of confusing a lot and in terms of business retention or attraction there’s city and the county recently merged forces that respect and then the city contributes money st. Louis County to fund a new development partnership so they can team together to attract business to the region it really

Has to be from a policy level for that thing to be implemented needs to come from a state and depending on the charter of the community and all that it’s a tough sell for a lot of folks but it needs to have it in my opinion in a

Lot of communities because there’s there is this ridiculous competition for retail people stealing Walmart’s from each other and sort of the net winner is not the taxpayer in that situation so yep though the walmart and you know sure stockholders are the winners of that setup alright this question comes in

From Christine I’m they’re seeing nimby opposition to mixed use higher density development in former single-use office light industrial areas and although there has not been public investment in these proposed projects the delaying costs are preventing economic development how is it how best is it to address neighbors concerns before the

Massive anti-development PR campaign with misinformation begins I’ve been to those meetings many times you know I think I think getting folks I know this is painful to hear maybe but but I think getting people involved in the planning process and having those community meetings and just having a lot

Of them and doing syrettes and having people come in and get engaged it’s probably the best way to head that off because you know you may get some great ideas from the general public and even if you don’t at least they feel like their voice has been heard and their

Concerns have been addressed and you know there’s some just anti-everything people but most people have some legitimate complaints embedded in in their their anger and so i don’t know i mean i’m a big fan of public involvement and getting people to be involved and even if you get your developer or your

Property owners at those meetings all the better but even if you can’t its till i think a useful exercise just make sure that you tell people that it’s an exercise and that you’ll be passing that information on to the developer but if it’s a you know privately owned property

That the city doesn’t control they don’t have necessarily listen Joyce the public says but you know it might be a good opportunity for for that I I don’t know what else to say other than that it’s that’s it’s just a really hard thing people get people people fear what they

Don’t they don’t know and I had I’ve been in I’ve been in public meetings where people came up and said they were against a bike trail because they were afraid that somebody was going to come ride their bike take their flat screen TV and ride off down the trail and you

Know it’s just I don’t see that happening but you know some people are afraid of things that they’re not sure on so yeah the targeted hard respond to that okay and our next question comes in from Donna how do you protect communities from development booms and what can you

Do to not be overcautious so that your community remains stagnant any tips thank you daddy would jump in here sandy Rohe banking when you have a booming situation and you have you a lot of you say you have an older downtown historic buildings you’ve got developers I’m

Applying for some sort of assistance and if things are really doing it’s important at that point to have some clawback provisions and every agreement you have with developer so that the city only incentivizes so much so that if the boom is really booming and everybody outperforms or expectations and the city

Isn’t giving up all that additional revenue they’re only giving up you know a portion of what they agree to the outside when people’s an expert expectations maybe maybe a little bit lower so that way incentives retired earlier and another the city or county gives us tax room earlier yeah and

You’re not going to I mean booms and busts are going to happen so you just have to make sure that you fully take advantage of those booms when they happen and that you protect the city and you don’t give away too much and when the bus happened you make sure that your

Fiscally well prepared for those and then the development that you’ve allowed to occur is been done in a smart you know it’s a smart growth manner that it’s not going to cost you a bunch when a bunch of stuff is sitting there and you’re paying for the infrastructure

Maintenance to keep it up so I mean there’s no way to protect yourself completely from booms and busts but you sort of have to know I guess how to handle it alright next been buying is a public-private partnership is that a risky projects the developer doesn’t want to shoulder all the risk themselves

So they asked the city of the county to to shoulder portion of that risk and if the project takes off and everybody would that’s when it’s important to have clawed provisions it’s important to have performance benchmarks so that if the developer fails at the early stages of

The project then the the city can can you know better take the property or put that property out forward for new bids or something else and so it returned that property to productive use great our next question comes in from Karen can you address the use of CDBG funds in

This age of declining CD funds what would the last part of the question in this danger I’m in this age of declining community development funds ah well there’s a lot less of them and it’s it’s tough for communities you know I would say make sure you spend you spend those

Money as well increasingly I know for federal projects there’s more and more stipulations on how you can use those funds and and so and there’s more oversight as more paperwork and they’re they’re less some Oh fungible I suppose this is a trend right the application is super competitive at the state or the

Federal level so you can apply for CDBG money as I get you need to have a really good project that’s really ready to start to put that might work because I know the state’s going to want to see results and I would say you know sort of shameless promotion here we’ve worked

With the state of Missouri on this this program called the Missouri dream initiative and is that Modron org if anybody’s interested and what we’ve done is we’ve worked with 39 communities to create a strategic plan for their downtown that includes a whole host of things including retail and housing analysis

And you know downtown organizational structure review and that sort of thing and the upshot of that program is that each of these communities have a really strong strategic plan for what they want to see happen in some oftentimes they’re most depressed area and so that way when

They go to the state or to the federal government or to a private grant philanthropic organization they have a they have a plan they have a strategic plan they have a nalysis to back up why they’re requesting CVG money or whatever whatever pot of money they’re going

After and I really feel like that puts those communities that have a plan that goes back to my you know have an economic development plan for your community that puts those communities at the front of the line for receiving that money my wife light writes grants and

People think that there’s a giant pot of money out there that if you just ask for it it’ll it will rain down on you and I think most planners realize that that’s not the case maybe it was at one point but it’s not anymore it’s not likely to

Come back so I think having a good plan of what you’re going to spend the money on it’s really the best the best way to be the most competitive for for those sorts of tools hope that answers that question okay great well I think that’s actually about what

We have time for today if we didn’t get to your question please feel free to email Andrew I’m his emails listed up right now on Andrew and Andy thank you so much for the presentation I think it was one over really well and seems like people really enjoyed it I’m going to

Switch back to my screen now and go over a few reminders on how you can log your CM credits so if you miss that in the beginning just stay tuned all right so for those of you who are still with us um to log your CM credits for attending

Today’s webcast please go to ww ing org slash CM and select today’s date which is friday June fourteenth and then select today’s webcast which is what not to do lessons learnt in the failure of others and this one case is available for wearing to have cm credits it’s

Actually still pending right now so we are still waiting for it to be approved it should be approved in the next week or two so you can just check that on it periodically um we’re also recording today’s webcast so you can find a copy of that on our youtube channel and with

That this will conclude today’s session I want to thank everyone again for attending you

ID: biJ1SDQDfgE
Time: 1371266264
Date: 2013-06-15 07:47:44
Duration: 01:29:58

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