Title:مصاحبه با سوموک بویانباچا

لورن زلین از WRI با سامسوک بویانباچا از ائتلاف آسیایی برای حقوق مسکن پیش از گزارش آینده منابع جهانی در مورد شهرها به گفتگو نشست. سامسوک بونیابانچا رئیس ائتلاف آسیایی برای حقوق مسکن، ائتلافی از سازمان‌هایی است که روی توسعه مسکن شهری ضعیف در آسیا کار می‌کنند. او پیش از این به عنوان مدیر موسسه توسعه سازمان های اجتماعی در تایلند خدمت می کرد. دکتر بونیابانچا در ۳۰ سال گذشته به طور گسترده روی توسعه مسکن ضعیف شهری و ارتقاء محله های فقیر نشین در تایلند و سایر کشورهای آسیایی کار کرده است. تخصص خاص او در جهت گیری توسعه در توسعه جامعه محور، جامعه محور در مقیاس وسیع است که ابزاری موثر برای بهبود مسکن جامعه شهری، رفاه جامعه، توسعه مسکن کم درآمد و مواردی از این دست است. او در طول مدتی که با موسسه توسعه سازمان‌های اجتماعی (CODI) کار می‌کرد، به‌روزرسانی ملی جامعه در سطح شهر را اجرا کرد که در تقریباً ۳۰۰ شهر با استفاده از مکانیسم مالی اجتماعی جدید و مکانیسم صندوق گردان در تایلند اجرا شده است. در سال‌های اخیر، او در سطح ملی با کمیته پیش‌نویس قانون اساسی، کمیته ملی توسعه مسکن و کمیته ملی اصلاحات تایلند همکاری کرده است. دکتر بونیابانچا همچنین دارای تجربه بین المللی گسترده ای از عضویت در کمیته حقیقت یاب در کره و هنگ کنگ تا همکاری با سازمان های غیردولتی اجتماعی و دولت های چندین کشور آسیایی دیگر است. علاوه بر این، او با کمیته های مشورتی سازمان ملل متحد مانند کمیته فرعی اخراج زیستگاه سازمان ملل، اهداف توسعه هزاره در مورد مسکن، کمیته مشورتی اتحاد شهرها و غیره کار کرده است. سامسوک بونیابانچا دکترای خود را در معماری از دانشگاه Khonkhaen در تایلند گرفته است و مطالعات قبلی خود را در مورد مسکن و شهرسازی در کپنهاگ و همچنین دانشگاه Chulalongkirn در تایلند به پایان رسانده است.

قسمتي از متن فيلم: This is the World Resources Institute and we’re speaking with some sook boonie a buncha for the World Resources report on sustainable cities first of all I’d like to talk a little bit about your personal history can you tell me where were you born and where did you grow up

Well I was bought in Thailand in 1951 in sort of a normal family yeah my parents have several children so we live together and up to today I thought my very strong believe in collective community probably come from this background know when I was young we live

Together we share things and we feel warm being together we help each other so I study architecture my generation I could say is the generation of change even at that time when we entered a university there was a lot of demonstration against the place early

Team you stay a too long you should open for election and so so we are a part of that larger society the conflict the public participation public unhappiness in the political system and so on it’s a part of the larger society in which you are taking into a part of your your your

Study so that my generation is the generation where we have the student movement coup d’etat the uprising you know everything we have passed many of that experience that’s become a part of my life so when even I study architecture on my class architects school we were so active about the

Social issue how architect will be a part of making change in the society in the transformation of the form of things how the system have the social system how the politics will be a part of that change so it’s quite special group of people generation who passed

This stage of change and so many of my friends up to now they become a very active persons in similar field including architect architecture and power planning and so they have a lot of political conscience social conscience not only the sectoral approach yeah they have more mix more integrated

Understanding of the larger society yeah because i believe housing is so important since I was very young and I think the way in which you decide the place for the people to live together it’s so crucial it’s a design of the community since I was very young but

When I enter the National Housing Authority and i become the officer for 12 years being pure government person owner I was not that happy because it’s to systemic in producing the houses not too much emphasis on the community or the social side I went to Denmark we study housing and urbanization in

Denmark in the year of 1978-79 and it has a lot of influence on me and until today I use many example from a civilized country like Denmark to to argue with many other people then even in Denmark they’re doing like that they not only housing but they being

Community all the housing project have some kind of community neighborhood community committee they have cooperatives they have the way in which community manage financed by themselves it’s not necessarily that we have the housing construction in developing country happen in such a way that we don’t take the social system into

Consideration at all no and is it known what you are talking about community is in the past it’s not in modern society which is not true yeah but all these different element formulate the the carrier the belief and the work that I have been doing in the

Past 20 years 30 yes so how did you take this background in agriculture in architecture and interest in community driven work you start the Asian Coalition for housing rights let me talk about housing people thought I could take truth sort of make a plan how’d the other people should leave yeah you make

Plan for the others and drawing and so on it I don’t think so architect is the profession that we believe the form is something to follow the function yeah a system what are the system inside and then you produce the form to accommodate a system or people yeah and and we

Believe in that no so when when I enter these National Housing Authority or and the other and really much passionate about how to fight the system or people living together to the housing desire also I always have a lot of interest in how the people are living together yeah

This is for one thing how the form of houses would help bill a system or community and how a system or community will be a part of the form making yeah and particularly when you work with the low-income community in the slum community for instance poor urban poor

Communities there are system some system which is answer their way of economic way social way land accessibility infrastructure whatever this existing thing answer the form in which they are living so now if we want to plan something for the people of that setting we have to understand that way of doing

Things and you transform that into a new Khayyam housing development which fit that way of doing and even enhance or strengthen the quality or the potential in which they already have into a new stronger system yeah and that is so exciting for me so talk to me a little

Bit about a chr s history and and what work how did it start and then what work have you been doing right so i’ve been working in thailand as i mentioned to you and one of the thing that i’ve been involved in the year 1980’s the the end

Of the AP was the land shelling protect where many slum communities in general are facing eviction still know you live like that and then the new development is affecting them and so on normally the people would have to be evicted and go away but they are rooted there yeah so

What you have to do is to see how to negotiate how to fire a compromising form between the people who live there and the new development so I’ve been involved in that negotiation and to make this compromising form between the way people have been living and the new

Development cut the land into two part 1 part 2 the new development of the city or the shopping center whenever the other part really developed as the people housing and that become famous the international community’s were quite happy with what happened because it’s a concrete form how we find a way that

Land challeng become the means to deal with the eviction eviction is always the very big issue in low income communities so little by little I have get the invitation into this international group and know so many others and in 1987 it was the year for shelter for the

Homeless yeah then there has been the care telling many of the key group in Asia and we and we think that it’s important to to link together into a platform because at that time at the end of the eighties there have been so many eviction happened in Thailand in Korea

In many key Asian country because it was the time of the urbanization high level of urbanization urbanization min eviction unfortunately instead of urbanization is an opportunity for the poor to also get better accommodation housing or status but it always become eviction so because of these many problems we think that we should create

Our own platform so that the asian group who are serious about this issue could learn and help each other so we get together to let spawn to the really big eviction in Korea there has been serious eviction of if I remember correctly eight hundred thousand families have been evicted because of the lead

Evelopment program so we get together and then we work together we understand the situation in our different community our country together and this really into a collision be called Asian Coalition for housing right at that time it linked to the habitat international coalition also so we add a section of

Asia who are doing this what we’re doing very different from here because we are more practical people and be one to find alternative to this eviction situation and one add a new possibility will add a new coyopa process where you can you can get the city going but people can also

Be better well as the shr the kind of group of people who are looking for the alternative way how the people process will get stronger and that will be any way in which the city and the people can go together so you said that urbanization means eviction with the rapid rate of

Urbanization expected over the coming decades how can it become an opportunity organization should be an opportunity even for the environment development in other but it’s not like that yeah we have the urbanization in which the power to decide where the urban I system is going to happen it’s David a few group

Of people who benefit too much and although the government saying that they do it for the people if you do it for the people you have to do a lot more public transport it set the public of a private car instantly and the power of the people who have more money to decide

On where the land should be utilized for whatever commercial use are much more stronger than the people the small people who don’t have much power yeah so when the power system the power relation of different sector are not so equal and the way in which are the group of people

Are not able to participate in the plan and desire of urbanization as properly as possible then you have the an equal urban development system yeah and the one who benefit will be fewer group of people the one who effect will be the people who are puella who don’t have

Much power who don’t own things who live on somebody land or whatever you know the weaker group of people in the society so this become the the the poi yeah I don’t see urbanization is a problem I think urbanization is okay any kind of development is open up

Opportunity but how we manage the opportunity in such a way that it makes all the coop benefit from that and it makes the society as a whole better how we balance that how we make this positive direction balance the only thing it could be balanced when different party are able to participate

And to say how how they like it to be here if it’s not then it’s mean you swing the development to favor certain group of people in the society only and cost problem to the other it costs more environmental problem yeah so it more it has more commercial opportunity but who

Benefit from that yeah so this is my point yeah WI believes in building cities for people not cars right very much in line with what you’re suggesting what if cities could prioritize the needs of the urban underserved do you think that would address some of the

Problem I don’t I don’t think so could I feel this is the way planner always think that we Paoli ties it we set things for different group of people planner sometime is a problem because whether we understand the people properly or not I believe a little more

On the on the political equation yeah I think it’s important to to create a platform where different group of people understand what’s happening and they can share they can interact they can participate they understand in the change of what it’s going to be and professional feed information into that

System yeah why not we make the cleaner as facilitator a two-way planning between planner and the people different section of people in the society and planner put together all these difference in two different alternatives people in possibility top this cars negotiate you know by the way in which number one as

Many group as many early as possible okay I’m not losing their their their history dance they passed their belonging and and planning help develop a better possibility for the existing and for the other and for the society as a whole yeah I think we have to facilitate that but it’s not something

Like a planner know best 11 planner in Vietnam for instant they have this urban planning and then we try to the community the poor community face eviction so we try to move the people into one earlier is it not that’s not possible that’s the green alien and then

You want to move to the other one is not that is not possible where are they going it is where can land you know it’s a wagon land here and there but whenever the community want to move somewhere no that’s not possible because the the plan

Have certain color for that you know why we change the color he said no the color is the law you got to follow that why is that you know when we don’t put people as our asset and something more important and color our technique I’m architect I can say you can decide

Anything you can make hundred thousand alternatives of whatever we just do okay but to understand the roots of our people and to help people become better stronger with good capacity with confidence with dignity and their okay this is more complex so we have to fix on this and we adjust the design to

Facilitate that but the desire as a whole still okay it linked with each other it sort of have a lot of social have a lot of proper accessible nice healthy you do it in this is easy people are more complex now we want to fix the Desai like God and we

Want all that complex elemental people to fit with the words mostly cheap simple this idea leaking yeah given your experience can you tell me two or three examples of innovative solutions that have work to address these challenges well like I mentioned before the deland chelly in many of the case people could

Share the land you can make Lanley adjustment the people don’t need to to to be kicked out 230 kilometres outside of the city yeah if we understand the way where the city are developing is it possible to also provide the possible and for the people they can move a

Little bit from the existing doesn’t matter all these canals squatter they can chipped a little that’s not a problem eviction is not a problem eviction is not a problem sometimes you need to move move but what are the alternative that we make their life better yeah if there is no alternative

They’re not moving and then then there’s a clutch yeah so what are the alternatives so if we look allow and see how we could find a possible resource land Charlie clearly adjustment and so on this is possible we I have worked on a similar line chatting project in

Thailand yeah where we share the land between the residents and the landlord even the Kings proper property management office they own one piece of land and they asked me to see how possible because they need to chain the land there was fire several time and if you

Don’t do anything people we live in that very different situation so it’s better to cut certain part of the land give it back to the institution and the other portion let the people leave house themselves find a loan so they can reconstruct st. the architect so they

Can only plan the thing so I’ve been working on a number of project like that and also when I study in Denmark one of the thing which I feel the first thing that struck me one of the lecturer he is the city planner he’s a famous guy and

He came to tell about how he planned the city is it oh if you want to be a street passing to this neighborhood from one end to the other you know but normally the conventional planner will you know draw the lie yeah and we try to see how

The different group of community would have to move and how to move yeah oh is it doesn’t matter you can just bring all this neighborhood to have a discussion and let discuss what other possible route it can go like this it can go like that you can go like this yeah and

Whatever the route which is going what are the effect and what going to happen and what are we going to do and what possibility it going to bring so use that for a discussion of this whole so many community and neighborhood feel so excited between yeah and that’s one of

The key issue I I feel this is the way how urban development supposed to be and for me working with the community of my life I don’t see any problem at all in discussing this with the people but the system of City Planning are not working like that unfortunately yeah

And do you think that cities know what’s good for the island that communities know what’s good for them do you think that they are asking the right questions and helping to come to the right answers when they’re involved in the processes well it’s not so simple yes definitely

Yeah because you have different family you have different interests cope you even have the Mafia who who benefit from where the poor communities are you have many actors intermediaries and even the interests of the community are not exactly the same you know it needs some organization it needs dialogue it need

Understanding so if you have the discussion in an open atmosphere and the right high of information has been given to the people properly it may take a bit of time yeah but I think this is possible it’s not a problem of course one before doing that you we need to

Understand the relationship between the group who are the power collector one other politics a relationship among these people who normally are the decision maker the one that the other group have a lot of respect to hear this kind of information is very very important we are the architect planner

Who facilitate the city the society the landlord the development side we have to be coddled a lot as development site they’re going to bring more momentum opportunity possibility into the earlier and the people who are the roots of the city the foundation of the city people so put together all that and negotiate

And find the terms in which they little by little understand I think I believe all the time that if we do the right thing for the better of all the parties little by little we find a way yeah they can accept what are some of the services that are really critical

To serving the the urban poor what are some of the services and programs that you need in order to have the strong communities that feel like their rights are being recognized that are being served by the government well the urban poor community in most of the cases

Lamb’s quarter they are the people who living on somebody land okay the land don’t belong to them and this is why they cannot improve they cannot make it proper even in some of the land owner if you improve anything they get the police so you have to live like that really

Very much like a condem community no we caused the land owned by somebody and your step as living there is either illegal informal you cannot do anything and so the situation is like that it’s not only on the land not only on the physical side the legal status is also

Problem if your children born in the slam which is illegal isn’t it mean your children become illegal from day one right it’s not their fault at all yeah so you mentioned whatever if plan is not on or not secure by the people who live there it brings all kinds of problem

Talking about services so they have different kinds of service different problems water sanitation electricity you name it even sending the children to school in some of the earlier health you don’t have a proper house which distillation not to talk about getting a good job but to send the children to

School is also problematic in some of the country so you name it so by accepting that slamming squatter have to be there to me I think this is criminal in itself why we don’t fix this for our people and then when the the physical form of the slamming and then squatter

Look look bad look dilapidated look poor you know the society look at these people as like that they look at the poor as criminal something untrustworthy because physical lead them to think like that but people are normal people they’re okay only they don’t know where

To stay where to where to live so they have to live in the place which is not except by the society and the society don’t provide a better place for them so we condemn a lot of good people in our society as criminals as bad people yeah the city produced this without the

Content tool to change it so I feel strong about this point I think the key point is to find a way how we change it is it no you cannot change it we don’t have learn the people are living on somebody laying all the time living on

The land and not leaning on the air so they’re living on the land why don’t you find another land so that they can move to that land so you lost this land anyway yeah it’s so absurd I feel and we have to find a where the people

Become people they are in the in the community they come to the city without status without money without friends and so on because of the problem in the lower layer because of disaster you beat them to the city so they came to the city without without all these money

Housing friends services if we just allow the people the opportunity so they bring this print and potential and to decide to make their life together more properly this would be a huge support to what they need and and this is always my living light yeah I inspire with the

Stream and the ability of the people so much that I think it’s it’s so strange when they decide housing for the poor in any place we don’t use this dream of the people we decide Fred for instance the apartment in which each family live individually you if you want to move

Them to another 20 kilometer away somewhere in the flat apartment you make a lot early so they used to live together as a group now family is there in fifth floor family being stay on the cloud floor all this person no community no system everybody live like individual

Ainge Minh then there we they cannot pay and they be big again by some means yeah now if we understand the system of the people and understand the splint and let them discuss together how they would find a way in the world I been doing we were in Thailand we have the community

Fun really if you negotiate with the landlord to buy this land we keep you the Lord you buy together as a group if you don’t you are not able to stay in the same place the land nearby is possible you you fight whatever pup gets a plan here

And there you find and if that’s possible private land or government land you negotiate you buy whatever we keep you the Lord you give you the look but you have to work together as a group as a couple of tips and you buy it you build a house together fine very simple

Very easy and then become the process in which we I have been working in Thailand yeah for so many years and you you let the poor people become actors I can take as facilitator use the strength of the poor to make all the solution possible yeah so I think if we support people

This way people will be very happy because nobody want to be condemned as illegal criminal whatever all their life and poor people actually struck go and looking for a possible way all the times enormous strength with so many people coming to cities with nothing how can cities build the infrastructure that

They need to have these strong communities with the city in many cases the city have a problem with them because I will I will talk about the small infrastructure and a big infrastructure the small infrastructure first many of the case the small infrastructure cannot go into the

Illegal end okay if the landlord say this is my land I don’t need your water supply passing to my land because it would show the sigh of letting these people stay in my lane so it’s mean a plan is insecure the poor people will not get sufficient in facility yeah the

In access to infrastructure in 10 you know unless you have a case like India India said everybody has the right to get the public services so the government will make the like the water supply line to to as many community as possible this is the principle every human being every family made proper

Infrastructure water electricity sanitation and so on so this this should be the basic needs for all the family now this is not possible for the poor family because of the land question in most of the country in Asia yeah so this is the problem always the small

Infrastructure we have the problem so so the poor end up paying more they have to pay higher for the water which is not coming from the public tap yes they have to buy whatever even electricity you have to connect from the neighbor and it’s always a pro classic blade so the

Poor have to pay higher you go to the toilet you pay higher so the poor end up paying for this basic infrastructure higher than the middle class people like us yeah it didn’t know now the big infrastructure is very interesting because now all the big institution in the world are focusing on infrastructure

The World Bank don’t do anything don’t keep the money for the poor people housing any longer they let the private sector do it verb and concentrate on infrastructure hm development bank also concentrate on infrastructure yeah everybody playing infrastructure infrastructure is good concept in terms of bring bringing the the main public

Code to to reach as many people as possible either transport water etc etc not bad and I like that I think that is a stretch of the system that allow normal people to enjoy and people who enjoy the transport could be the leech person or the poor you can enjoy

This public transport equally the concept is fine the problem is that number one when they develop the big infrastructure project you always develop that the the earlier which affect our poor people when you develop one good Street it’s not the the community who directly affect by that

Street you bring the price up by that Street so the land plies all allow that earlier going up skyrocketing yeah which become an eviction to our community so infrastructure development if you don’t plan carefully will lead to eviction I be used to propose for instant like the

Case in the power they they want to to make a clean liver rehabilitation and sanitation system where ever and that affect a lot of community who live along that river so I propose why don’t you give a little more alone not only in transact loan for that infrastructure construction but any community who

Effect by that construction any community who effect by the construction should also have the resource for develop housing yeah so we can forecast I mean this is easy to plan that the effect of direct effect indirect effect to the community which going to be affected by the ed infrastructure

Construction will be what will be at what scale and then we even think about the people we provided the finance to take out as well so this should be the way are there any places where financing is working or do you see specific examples where it could financing like government

Or you know a World Bank grade B or other funding sources like that do you see any place where it is working to serve the urban poor there may be some may be some I even in some of these policy was saying that if infrastructure construction lead to the location they

Should take care of the little kitchen I think it’s there in itself yeah only how far they actually follow and follow in such a way that you lead building you are not fighting a new way to dispose this group of people I think it’s no problem to whatever necessarily

Development which is going to take place but how you we make the new development to take place in such a way that everybody is better it become opportunity for everybody and you find your model new way of doing things and life of the people life of the city life

Of the system nearby are better why not thinking about this creativity you know now many of the infrastructure project some of them are not even designed by the government and not by the people in that society but the company the big giant company come with ideas and project and trying to persuade the

Government to to to go along yeah it’s also happy like that yeah how we make it more transparent process and have a little discussion of the cause and effect and how everybody would be better better manage the system and bring the benefit to the larger society as a whole

And let make it come very transparent once the transparent process is there with good understanding and participation I I personally believe in the change of the city I don’t believe that you we have to live as conventional as 50 years ago 100 years ago we can continue the historical way

In which we are living the good thing that is exists but we have to adjust keep adjusting the neighborhood the local system all the time because the world is changing but how to change in such a way that it’s adaptive and everybody could benefit from that and

Learning also we are smarter we interact with each other better and it’s better environment better social system emerged from that I think that is a challenge how have your learnings in Asia how could they inform work in Africa or Latin America and in other communities around the world well I believe it’s the

Same thing you know people were saying that whether this a couple came that you support 200 city in and she at work is it working in other continents I say yes I don’t have a problem with that because it’s people driven people are everywhere yeah why don’t we do it in Africa I

Think it’s working if we focus on people but the way in which the people in different political context would participate would react may be different but concentrate on people that the change in which people are the main actor main dancer of the flow yea dance different song doesn’t matter yeah but i

Think is working that way but now we we don’t look at people and subject we look at physical and subject we look at physical state physical change a subject and also economic change a subject we lost the picture of people yeah that is what we have to take it

Back how can habitat 3 play a role in achieving your goals if I were the one who planned for the habitat tree I would not make this whole global meetings and every meeting thing that one we should write I mean what kind of smarts and pens are contented we should put in the

In the right up making the line a constitution of the housing urban development book you know and the whole world is like that so expensive and it’s very centralized in my opinion I would do it the other way around I would use habitat tree to strengthen change over

The world yeah what happened in Indonesia in Asia yeah what do you think the change in Asia is supposed to be what kind of plan what kind of finance what try or people process and being the government bring the people to meet and talk lemme call that habitat 3 process

Huh you grant the habitat tree to every movement like that all over the world to find solution I call it habitat 3 process I’m so exciting to think like that no he’s not today every single even allow the world would have to find some words into habitat which is going to be

In up by some few expert who drop things taking from that paper or not nobody know so to me I feel habitat three should be a process in which you use it to strengthen that the actual change on the growl in the country what is not happen it shouldn’t happen if you could

Define success and 10 20 or 50 years what would it look like well in in Thailand in Asia in the past of the year in which we have been working i have been working i think more or less we come to the point that we could solve the problem in a big way

We’re now in Thailand phones and we implement the city why upgrading in about 300 cities and not still not up to the point III think it should but more or less the system are there and people are alert government have the policy here scale are their last five year we

Implement the Asian collision for Community Action Program a similar to that the city while upgrading so in some way I feel like we are understanding the condition and we are able to find a way to to deal with the scale of solving this in a big way this is what we

Achieve so far we understand that to achieve that it has to be an integrated process politically economically socially and people driven I feel that all this process that we believe we are able to work in such a huge scale and even more if we have the budget we can

Actually trigger this change in this 19 countries and other more than this yeah now we can do up to a certain level we only believe that the elements in which we have support would trigger the understanding and the knowledge of our community the professional community all this knowledge come from 30 years

Experience you know the point is that how we can institutionalize it how our community professional community would open themselves and trying to make use of this knowledge into what they have been doing and going to do more yeah we don’t need to have a strong professional community at the national level or

International level and we well pet but poverty is still there yeah I think we can now kill it or make it better in a big way but the point is that how we would convince the larger society how to to have a little a little more passion a little more sensitivity

How to do it seriously more seriously I remember coming here at the time of the world bank president mr. whooping whooping Singh yeah when he was a president and he was the one who was saying that we should find a way to solve the slum problem or boli more

Strongly and he support the what they call city with Al Salam they will mend election and they even sent up a very important program called City a lens at that time called City win ozlem City Alliance city with awesome in the first year i think it’s sort of half the

Vibration we are serious and then we sort of slower slower slower also and you don’t know where they where our friends are I feel it is quite important that we remove this up because when we don’t do it seriously we are doing harm to our people in the society you

Criminalize them I use this world very strong and it’s not necessarily for the people to to to get this and then they okay they are proper citizen yeah how have change that this is one thing in my mind then I think that now the knowledge to do it it’s where is criolla it’s

Doable it’s doable to change this it’s possible so we should do it in a new momentum do it in a new way to achieve this in a modern society is not necessarily to live like 10 years ban or 20 years man and second on the bigger development

The urban development as a whole it should keep an umbrella for this kya positive approach how our bond evelopment would be more inclusive will be more open we create opportunity for all will be more equitable get everybody to be a part of otherwise the global agenda is always a negative agenda like

Climate change because climate is so bad but this Astrea that is all negative because we do the negative development to our society why don’t we adjust that and make it more more creative more better more healthy for all the guru people and and making the platform and possible ambella for every group of

People to to to be all right to be healthy to be legal to to be free to have freedom make the environment system and the people are able to be a part of each other and the city more social yeah today we develop the city in our social

Structure which is it’s not just astonishing which is something so alarming we develop the urban system without social structure when I’m bdy design a system in which people interact and live together as a community neighborhood protecting each other helping each other from a small unit into a big one it disappeared absent

Total absence of the social design social structure for the urban development why don’t we bring it there and how can you imagine that environment of the city will be better without the strong input of all these community yeah we wander the municipality to take out the garbage for the whole city take care

Of the sanitation affordable city taking care of the clean and environment and canal waterway what kind of municipality will be so high capacity to do everything by itself without their people very difficult so I think the concept of city management all this different element would have to be

Reconsider and make the city development something more balanced taking care of people as the key actor so making city for people by people and let our people be strong and be a part of the management in a different kind of setting and participate in the management in the responsibility of how

The city are ya bring the people back being the socio system back you

ID: 1-5yqpPSg2Y
Time: 1468016876
Date: 2016-07-09 02:57:56
Duration: 00:53:07

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