Title:ظهور غیرقابل توقف محتوای برنامه ریزی شهری

هر قسمت Induction دو هفته زودتر در دسترس است http://go.nebula.tv/induction

چت تام با زویی بی در مورد اقدام صنعتی در پردیس های کالج را در اینجا تماشا کنید https://nebula.tv/videos/induction-why-professors-are-revolting?ref=induction

در این قسمت دو هفته ای Induction، تام با جیسون اسلتر از نه فقط دوچرخه ها درباره رونق اخیر در محتوای برنامه ریزی شهری صحبت می کند. چگونه این حوزه موضوعی که زمانی خاص بود، اینترنت را در اختیار گرفت و… به جرأت می‌توانم بگویم… جالب شده است؟ ویدیوهای جیسون را در http://youtube.com/@NotJustBikes

*تیم القاء* به میزبانی تام نیکلاس ویرایش شده توسط جورجیا باروز

قسمتي از متن فيلم: Urban planning content is kind of everywhere now and its rise is sort of fascinating to me see my partner’s Grandpa was a town plan and when we went to visit him he’d occasionally point out something in his local town that he’d helped design I specifically remember

Him pulling into the car park of a harvester Pub once and him being like I drew this this was me which was interesting and pretty Charming but I never remember thinking it was cool in the conventional sense being a town planner was in my mind and I

Assumed in most other people’s a kind of nerdy maybe occasionally dull office job but over the past few years that seems to have changed significantly suddenly I can’t move on YouTube or Tick Tock or Twitter without being served some kind of urban planning or public transport content and people

Seem to not only find this content interesting or intellectually stimulating but cool urban planning is cool now for quite some time I’ve been Keen to try and explore why this shift came about and in order to do so there was really only one person to speak to the orange

Urbanist himself Jason from not just Jason welcome to the show thank you so much for uh agreeing to give up a little bit of your evening to me yeah no problem anything uh uh any time by the time it’s great that was that was a big promise [Laughter]

It is I actually watched them all and that’s not true of most uh nebula creators so uh you know I’ll remove most creators in general right I don’t watch that much stuff but I’ve always don’t find your stuff enjoyable oh I think oh that that’s always really nice um and

And the the uh adoration is uh is uh returned I really like I really uh I mean as we’ll come across in the course of this uh podcast I’m sure really enjoy as many people do which is sort of the thing we’re here to discuss a little bit

Um that not just bikes has I I think is it your fan base describes it as being orange pilled I’m like yeah later the scribers being orange pill that once they’ve watched the my content they can never see their cities the same way again which can be a good thing or a bad

Thing depending on who you ask in fact this was so I know we’ve had we’ve had this chat kind of set up for a few weeks now but I was really sort of you know over the last week as as you know it was it was on my calendar coming towards me

I was thinking about it um partly because so I was in New York doing some doing some work um for nebula the Fantastic video uh platform uh and I’d been to New York once before maybe and I think I worked out it was 2014 because me and my partner had

Watched Birdman and had to come out of the cinema and been like just and like just sort of easily swayed children had been like oh that place was cool we should we should go to that we should go to that place that’s um they seem like good buildings

Um and uh and I think one when we were there that time uh I must have realized that being in New York involved crossing the road quite a lot because it’s this sort of Grid City yeah sort of walk for five minutes you stopped for a while you

Walk for five minutes and you stop for a while so and I think I must have noticed that when we were there last time but this time I really noticed it in a way that I and sort of you know in a way of being able to think about it in a kind

Of contextualized way right as a kind of I guess what I’d call a kind of political issue in terms of it’s a it’s a question of how do we shape the spaces in which we exist and stuff and is it reasonable that I need to stop and wait

This much in New York City when there’s like 10 times as many people on the sidewalk as there are in cars yeah and and who is it that has these who is it that is driving and you know some of these are business Vehicles where you go okay you

Need to get I think I was staying in a kind of Flower District and sometimes you need to get flowers from one place to another in a van and that kind of makes sense sometimes you’ve got a big hulking great SUV with with dark Windows where it’s probably just someone wants

To get from A to B a little bit quicker than uh they would be able to on the Metro or or walking party because of the uh the the fact you have to cross the road all the time and yes the number of Lights you need to wait for yeah yeah

Which it which is a lot and also just I I always have the I always find it interesting going to different countries the fact that everything is like almost similar but not quite so you have what is essentially a zebra Crossing in the UK yeah but for some reason all the cars

Can turn right at you and that suddenly there’s this like oh wow okay I’m I I don’t sort of have right away yeah I mean I’ve talked about that before right on red is is Bonkers you know it’s really funny um the uh when I when I when I talk

About the history of the Netherlands you know the oil crisis in the 1970s hit a lot of countries um and uh and it caused a lot of terrible effects all over the place uh in the Netherlands it helped to kick off a lot of the changes that happened to

Make it a cycling country and the United States the only thing lasting thing they got out of the oil crisis was turning right on red so they had implemented that during the oil crisis to save on gasoline so that cars didn’t need to idle at a red light when turning right

Oh really yeah and it’s still there today and it kills a ridiculous number of people like I shouldn’t even be laughing about it except that it’s so ridiculous that it’s still around given how many people get killed um when turning right on red it’s it’s

Absurd but uh trying to get rid of it is is damn near impossible um it’s been tried for me it was a time when I was crossing and there was like two lanes coming around so one I could keep an eye on I could work that out but

Then when there was like another car coming and because they’re these big poking great SUV things yeah like the the car you sort of don’t see the next one come round and you’re suddenly like I don’t know you suddenly feel like it’s sort of massive elephant you’re around

Just be stampeded by and you’re sort of like thank you very much that’s one of those things you see very often in the United States that when you do have zebra Crossings um you uh and I will pronounce that the the British way because I did live in

The UK for six years it’s zebra Crossing um [Laughter] okay I worked for a British company and they really beat me down on a lot of my pronunciations of words like I will say aluminum um but anyway one of the problems that really was worn down and I remember

The first time I said that I’ll put it in my diary instead of calendar I was like I need to leave I can’t do this anymore I feel like that’s not the worst I feel like I would I would understand what someone said by that that’s not the it’s

Not one of the like weird ones um holding down the fort or could care less some of those where it really sort of I don’t know a diary in in North America is something that only a little girl would write in so it’s uh oh oh

Yeah it’s your dear diary right it makes no sense whatsoever to North Americans to say I’ll put it in my diary and I was like that was one I was really trying not to do but anyway the point I was trying to make here before I got

Horribly distracted is that um in the U.S a lot of the problem with the zebra Crossings is you have to cross multiple Lanes of traffic and there’s no like Refuge island in the center which is quite common in the UK too to have that little island you know you cross a lane

Or two and then there’s that little island you wait at that’s very rare in the United States and so you get these situations where you have to cross five six seven Lanes of car traffic on a zebra Crossing and it’s and it’s ridiculously dangerous yeah I and I I

Think it was I think what really struck me was the way in which I was thinking about it that before I would have gone oh there’s a lot of cars here I’m just in a big city yeah that’s just the way it is right yeah

Um and maybe that’s that I don’t live in the biggest city in the world so what part of the UK do you live in so I live in a city called Plymouth which is in uh like the Southwest so that’s the pointy little bit down the bottom

Um so it’s not a huge uh City it’s it’s fairly car Centric in that the public transport isn’t amazing but it’s not so big that that completely takes everything over um but you’ll you’ll still have your local High Street and things like that right like yeah in fact um in fact the one

That’s near me is that the sort of closest kind of over closest by one maybe High Street and is a kind of interesting I’ve I’ve thought sort of using using the the terminology that that you use which I think you’ve sort of borrow from strong towns of your of

Your Strode yeah I we sort of do it’s not so it’s not quite as big yeah no it’s only two lanes either side yeah um but we do have a street where it has shops either side and sort of seems like and always seems like it’s going to be

The cool street with lots of little shops and sort of sometimes get sort of half the way there right but then has like a a sort of central reservation with barriers up because it is very much a kind of through fare for traffic and it would be really tempting

Just to run across the road and I’m sure it’s one of those barriers where you feel like there’s probably a story behind you yeah it’s probably there for a reason there’s probably quite a dark story behind why that barrier is there um but it sort of does okay I think

Um and so to go to a big American city um there’s always going to be a leap but I think it was really interesting the fact that there has been such an explosion in discussions around Urban environments that suddenly meant that I was looking at it in a in this really

Connected way of going oh that this isn’t sort of the way that and I guess I don’t have the same ownership over New York to be to be really like oh no I really feel really sorry for Fourth Avenue or wherever I was but no The Avenues are the smaller ones that

Go I don’t know to be like I really wish I don’t remember Avenues are one way streets to the other I don’t remember I’ve been in New York many times but uh I don’t know I wasn’t I wasn’t there going like oh I really I I feel so sorry

For Broadway that it’s not fully pedestrianized but I was going oh what isn’t it interesting that these choices have been made to yes make this place which I mean is in many ways quite traversable without um any kind of car yeah and New York City is the weird exception in the

United States like whenever you see any graphs of anything related to urban planning there’ll be all of the Cities here and then a big spike for New York because it’s so different in every way to every other other every other city in the in the country

Um but it’s still a place that uh oh man it it’s a place that that disappoints me so much because you never know that 70 I think it’s a little more than 70 these days of households in Manhattan do not own a car um but you never know it by the number

Of cars that are there it’s uh it’s shocking um yeah it’s it’s a strange Place uh uh when compared to other world cities of its size like if you compared it to London or Paris or you know Hong Kong or something like that um but it’s also strange in the United

States too and that there’s really no other city in the United States that’s anything close to to New York especially Manhattan I did actually go I went on the Sunday I went outside of New York to a town called New Rochelle which is just sort of to the north

Um to go to a very tiny Museum and by asked someone like how because about half an hour walk to get there and he he was just like there’s the taxis yeah and like he was like are you gonna get a cab there and I was like it’s sort of a nice

Day I I spend 25 30 on camps getting there and back I’d have a nice walk through because I could see some of it was through a park right so I think there is a there is a particularly maybe an American cultural thing around cars but

I don’t think it is uh just there like I definitely feel it in the UK yeah um it’s very different in the UK but it’s still an element that’s there I mean this is one of these things that permeates all over the world right I think I mean cars are really useful so

Yeah of course you’re going to use them uh and as you talked about that’d be the the flower trucks and all that kind of thing I mean Motor Vehicles are incredibly useful but I do kind of feel like in the 20th century we won one a

Little or overboard with it we have this new technology called cars and we’re like oh my God this is this is the best thing ever let’s put them everywhere let’s have everyone drive them all the time we don’t need anything else and I kind of feel like we just went too far

With that logic and now we need to reel it back in a little bit to say okay this is a really useful technology we have here but let’s use it in moderation like where it’s useful because it’s like literally killing us too right so um yeah but but everywhere in the world of

Course uh it’s so easy for a city to get overrun by automobiles because it’s one of these things that I’ve talked about before where on an individual basis it can be really really great you know you’re sitting in your own little private metal box you can go wherever

You want whatever you want but on a societal basis when everybody’s in cars it has a lot of negatives and I think it’s that kind of balance between the the uh personal benefits and the societal costs that really causes a lot of the issues there fundamentally I’m

I’m lucky in that I do most of my work from home and then do sort of a day or two where I’m not at home um where I mostly cycle to places right and so when I do see me and my partner share a car which she mostly uses

Because she needs to get to work in it and and the few the very few times where I have to drive and I’m driving at a time when it is like rush hour or whatever I I do find it really odd because like we’ve got not particularly nice car it’s also not

Particularly eco-friendly but it’s uh yeah it gets us around but it doesn’t have a fancy entertainment system or anything right and it’s those times where I go oh this is why some of my friends are like no I need a really great radio and I need it to not have

Windscreen wipers that hit against the side and go like quack quack quack where I’m like oh this is fine and I’m like oh no because you’re sat in it for yeah you’re going to be trapped in there for hours and hours and hours at a time so it had better be nice yeah

Um but have you but it does feel like there is a a I think backlash is not the right word maybe because that that feels sort of a bit bit more angry and a kind of rage-filled way but it does feel like there is a sort of questioning and I

Knew you were saying before we came on that for you it’s maybe hard to tell um to what extent that has permeated too wider Society because you’re sort of at the heart of yeah I’m like literally in the middle of it and a lot of it is literally orbiting around me and my

Channel so I yeah it’s like I can’t see in any direction I look it’s urban planning I mean okay I can’t think of it I can’t think of a less sort of a grandizing comparison than this but I feel like it’s a bit like I’m I’m this is very flattering

Um uh Jesus must have been like whoa everyone’s suddenly talking about this Christianity thing everyone you know it’s quite funny because there’s a there’s a bit of a cult that’s that’s good that’s happened around the channel too uh and especially if you go over to the subreddit uh cars yeah

Yeah which was not started by me what did but the people who started it were fans of the channel like it’s got some of the Flair there is not just bikes and orange build and stuff like that in it and um and people over there um have made the joke before that I’m

The Messiah and there’s these Life of Brian memes that have been photoshopped with my head on it where they’re in there the Messiah and I’m like and and it’s like Photoshop Life of Brian with with my head on it that says I’m not the Messiah and then it’s like

Only the Messiah would say he’s not the Messiah so I don’t think I could care for that I think I’ve just I’ve talked previously about the fact that I quite like I don’t know I often don’t feel a huge amount of pressure before one of my videos comes out

Um I don’t think like I don’t know like I I like to make them good I like to make them as good as I can right but I don’t I I tend to feel like if one of my videos is bad it just doesn’t again no one watches it

Um and I sort of don’t mind that I would sort of prefer that to be the system that if I make something and it’s not good it’s just I don’t think I could deal with um uh uh with everyone being like the Messiah is about to release the new descent from

The mountain that he I think he goes to a mountain at some point I can’t remember um I would like to think that it’s really not quite that bad but there definitely is uh it is kind of crazy how much that my channel has grown um and I

Don’t really know why that is I don’t know if my channel hit like struck a nerve or whether it was just good timing because I started the channel in October of 2019 and it hit 100 000 subscribers uh in about 13 months I think it was which is very fast right and um

Uh but at the same time that was right before covid hit and the lockdowns hit right and so I think um part of this urban planning thing I think is due to the coronavirus lockdowns because what happened is that pretty much every city in the world suddenly had a lot fewer

Cars on the road and so no matter where you were you’re suddenly looking at like one tenth the number of cars on the road because people weren’t going to work and they weren’t going out they certainly weren’t doing you know Leisure trips and things like that and I think people

Um you know with a lot of the shops being closed and things like that people were out on the streets more often and they started looking around and going like wow it’s a lot nicer here now that uh there’s a lot fewer of these cars around you know it’s quieter and and uh

It’s a lot more pleasant across the street and and you know it’s easier to get around and and people started you know for example um bicycles became like sold out around the world during the the coronavirus lockdown and the the bicycle manufacturers were having trouble getting parts and getting bicycles into

Shops and stuff like that because there was such a huge spike in demand for bicycles and I think again that’s because people well maybe they didn’t want to take public transit and so they decided to take a bicycle but I think it’s also an element that when there’s

Fewer cars on the road people feel safer cycling and I’ve seen this all over cities in Europe too even outside of the coronavirus um that in general the cities that have lower car volumes and lower speeds have more people who ride bicycles uh you know infrastructure or not they just

They feel safer out there and that’s usually the thing that holds back cycling in anywhere yeah I know um I started well I’d sort of mean to be had a few periods in my life where I’d done quite a lot of running um and so I’ve done it for a while and

Sort of stopped I think maybe twice I’d had like sort of maybe a year a year where I sort of ran quite a lot for a year and then you know it came to Winter and the days got shorter and I didn’t want to run on Christmas Day and then

That sort of went away for a couple of years but um over the last like maybe two or three years now I’ve been running quite a lot and that was during um covid that I started that because suddenly exercise was a thing that yeah excuse me exercise was a thing that I

Had to actively go actively go I’m gonna do this on this particular time of the day uh because I’m not gonna go walking up and down the stairs isn’t gonna gonna yeah that’s not gonna cut it anymore the same way that previously I might have

Gone to the shop a lot more in the week because right I like just going to the shop and browsing around the supermarket um and it has meant that I’ve spent a lot more time sort of I I’ve always been I’ve rarely been someone who’s driven

All the time so I’ve often been someone who’s walked around walked and cycled and um got around that way but it has meant that the city I live in is sort of kind of the place I hang out in some ways like as much as if I was playing on the

PlayStation for an hour in my living room instead I’m going on an hour’s run essentially I’m kind of just hanging hanging around in the in the in the city and so you do suddenly notice um um you notice things in a slightly different way about how how the space is planned and how

Um like I I know all the different ways that I can run and try and avoid Crossing Too Many Roads because I don’t have the stop Lots um and you start to really notice where how things um shift together so I imagine there’s probably lots of people who

Um started off doing that and then suddenly all there’s more cars coming back and you’re suddenly going oh yeah and people started to see it so they experienced it with fewer cars and then the cars started coming back and then they’re like this kind of sucks now

Um yeah I wonder why that is and they pop on the internet and suddenly there’s this orange branded Channel telling them hey here’s the reason why it sucks so much it’s the hoodie you’re wearing is that a for anyone that’s anyone that’s listening to the audio version Jason is

Wearing a fabulous orange hoodie yes is this branded is this it is not branded actually this was one I I went back to Canada last summer and my mother got me this orange hoodie she’s like she saw it and she was like this is the orange this is NJB orange oh

I’m glad they are that was really good I got the I got the Branded mug but uh well this is the Branded mug that says nachos bikes awesome yeah anyway which is your your Mr Beast Burger I’m going to start a Mexican restaurant um but that’s interesting because that’s

Sort of a similar place to where you were coming from when you started the channel is although rather than it being walking around your City without cars and the cars coming back more of a kind of geographical comparison um which has been really interesting I don’t know if it’s been increasingly I

Think I was particularly thinking about it while watching the video you did with for a man foreign land um uh about uh the Bahamas and the thing about it’s really interesting you going to different places um has been a really I’m sure being like how does this work what can we learn

What can we um because that kind of those kind of geographical comparisons I think work really are really interesting yeah and I’m hoping to do more of those over the coming years now that travel is freed up uh some more it’s it’s a little bit difficult for me to travel because I do

Have two kids you know have a family and everything but uh but I’ve been trying to make uh make opportunities to travel I’ve been out to Paris and I’ve been to Switzerland and and Italy uh around Italy with high-speed trains and I was just recently in Oslo and I’m working on

On those videos right now um and I find it really is interesting to go to all these different cities and see what they’re doing well and what they could be doing better and I think there are examples there uh that are really interesting I found Oslo to be fascinating they’ve basically solved car

Traffic like car traffic’s gone now um and it it certainly wasn’t even when I was there five years ago so it’s amazing to see um these cities and how they’re changing I think there’s a lot of really interesting things happening in Europe in particular um I I have a horrific public transport

In Oslo story oh yeah maybe horrific’s overselling it if I when I was there I got one tram I think in my entire trip because one day I’d I’ve been working there most of the time and I had a day off and I was like I’m

Gonna see as many sites as possible and I got one of those uh kind of tickets you get in lots of cities where you can get entry to lots of different museums and you also get free traffic on the on the buses and trams etc for the day

Right it’s getting towards the end of the day and lots of stuff had closed because it was kind of autumn I think and so it gets gets darker about three o’clock so most bases close by five because no one wants to be out and about

Um or at least the museums and stuff did um and the only place that was open was a kind of reptile um uh Zoo kind of thing which one I got there was a very small building with just like sort of a gecko there and a

Snake there it was very much me just being like well I’ve paid 40 euros or whatever for this and I’m gonna see every day Museum and I’ve got an hour that one in so I’m going um and I was on this tram back from it being like Oh that was oh you know

Um that was something I guess uh and I I was trying to work out where my stop was and I was there for ages and I couldn’t work out another one of those things are being in a slightly different country and not being entirely certain how the

System works and they had a kind of what I assumed was a stop button and I was like I hope it’s not like an emergency alarm button so I got up and I sort of pressed it really gently and that didn’t do anything and I was like because I

Think I was just too being too timid because I was worried it was the the I’m having an emergency yeah right and so then I got the second time and I pushed it and it did go Bing and it came up with something that I was like okay I’m

Pretty sure that stopped that’s okay and then I went to sit back down and it was one of those seats that just does the flip up when you um yeah they have a lot of those in Norway for some reason the flip up seeds yeah crashed to the floor and I was like

It’s like last year as well so I’m like I’m like a grown man I’m not like I’m not like 14 or something and get away with it I just like I cannot come back to this city I’m sorry that’s it that’s it you’re done ah

But it was but it is quite because some of their um transport stuff has been quite car Centric and that it’s been about electric cars hasn’t it in Norway that yes they’ve sort of used the oil money to um subsidize uh I think you can essentially just get an electric car

Really really cheap I think is the yeah I mean Norway in general was built to be a bit car Centric through the early 20th century because they were in oil power and they were happy to like have cheap oil and have lots of cars and that seemed like the future

Um I think every place did that in the 60s but any place that had oil certainly did that in the 60s and and then as things as it became clear that um that internal combustion engines were not a good idea um they they pushed hard over to

Electric cars and with lots of steep discounts and everything to the point where it’s actually crazy how many cars in Norway are electric like just going around the streets of of Oslo and it’s all electric cars everywhere and electric cars brands I’ve never seen never heard of

Um and it’s really interesting but what what I what I have found um interesting about Norway is that over the past few years they’ve kind of led up on the electric car thing and they’ve they’ve had this acknowledgment this public acknowledgment that actually probably better to have a lot of these people in

Public transit than to to have them all in electric cars so they’ve been actually ramping that down a little bit and bringing up public transit which has been really interesting to see because it’s I think it’s so because it’s got a rural country so there’s probably there’s pain Parts yeah that

Makes yeah up in the north that probably makes a lot of like you know I I grew up in the countryside and um there was I could it could have been connected the buses sort of gradually got cut down to the point where I think

It was like one a day into the the major Metropolis right now um but uh but so I think there is places where it well but particularly somewhere like Oslo where it is quite it’s not it’s not even actually that big as it is a city not particularly although it’s

Not particularly high density either it’s um it’s a little bit um um I I you know I’d have to check the numbers but it certainly doesn’t feel like an extremely high density City and it does go out and sprawl a little bit but I find that the sprawl in Oslo is

Not so much car dependence for all it’s very much built around uh Transit so it goes out there’s all these little towns and stuff out as you go out and out out of the city but they’re all connected by a metro line they’re all connected by a

Rail line and then they’ve got you know the little town around the rail station um and and it and again that seems to work quite well for them when it comes to reducing the amount of traffic in the capital hey I hope you’re enjoying my

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That link again is go.nebula.tv forward slash induction now back to my chat with Jason what what has been out of the as you’ve been traveling with this sort of eye to it what has been does Amsterdam remain your kind of gold standard for you know the funny thing is um that uh

We moved to Amsterdam I mean I won’t go through the whole origin story but we had lived in a bunch of different countries we lived in the UK and Taiwan and Belgium I lived in uh the United States in California as well and all over Canada

Um and um we had moved back to Canada and after living in all these nice walkable places it just it wasn’t doing it for me we tried to live as like European as possible to live like in an older neighborhood that still had some remnants of a High Street that

Still had stream cars and stuff like that but it just it was not the same there’s just still there’s that you can tell the influence of car dependency it comes into every city in Canada and it’s kind of inescapable um so we were looking at the sort of

Next place to live but it had to be the last place so we did a bunch of research we had been all over the place we had been to every major city that you could imagine um but uh but but we ended up in Amsterdam because of some of that

Research to say like where did we want to raise our kids where do we want to stay for the the rest of our our lives right um but Amsterdam wasn’t the only city we were looking at like I was looking at other cities in Copenhagen and Oslo and

Stockholm and lots of different places um but we did settle on on Amsterdam I’m not even necessarily convinced that Amsterdam’s the best city in the Netherlands like I really liked utswash if you like smaller cities I really enjoyed delft and Leiden I think there’s a lot of great places here so I don’t

Know um Amsterdam is a fantastic City it really really is and of course in the Netherlands the bike infrastructure is is second to none there is nowhere in the world that comes anywhere close to the cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands not only in its quality but in its pervasiveness it’s everywhere

Throughout the entire country like I could take a train out to some tiny little village and get out and get a rental bike there and I know that it’ll be safe to cycle around anywhere I go so it’s remarkable in that way but I think um that you know I I certainly don’t

Think that the Netherlands has a monopoly on great cities certainly not in Europe um well and like I said I was really impressed with Oslo um I’ve I’ve been impressed with lots of different places here I was really impressed with the quality of the public transportation in Berlin for example

When I was there a few weeks ago or a few months ago I guess it is now so yeah I think um I mean my channel obviously talks about Amsterdam a lot because that’s where we live but I don’t think that it’s necessarily like the greatest city

In the world or something like that I think there’s there’s lots of European cities that are up there and I think it would be even tough to say which one’s the best I mean for example the public transportation in Amsterdam is good but it’s not as good as other places in

Europe and I think part of the reason for that is because the cycling is so good that actually cuts into the public transportation a bit too so it’s it’s a complex thing and it really depends like which slice you’re looking for what’s important to you in a city

I think I think what what’s always interesting about Europe as well is the the ways in which the kind of slightly more macro level of how you can get between um cities as well um I think earlier maybe six months ago maybe a little bit more a little bit

Less um my partner went to uh Leo was it was it Leon I can’t remember went to France in the South um and uh and got the and decided to get the train rather rather than fly um and getting to get sort of getting into France was a a

Bit of a ordeal because um the UK’s trains are not completely but quite often but largely on a kind of Hub and spoke kind of thing if you go to London and then you go out to yeah wherever you need to go to um there is sort of deviations to that

But there is if you want to get between two big cities often you do have to go to like well definitely from where we are you often have to go into London and then sort of right out um and so she had to go up to London to

Then sort of go back a little bit to get uh on the on the Eurostar but then once she was in France when she got to um I guess it was God Garden or I think the Garden or in Paris yeah uh like after that the trains were like quicker

And like so much cheaper than it had been to sort of get to London um and the whole system just sort of worked for being able to cross huge amounts of the country yeah and uh and also it’s such a great way to to travel distances I think and oh it

Really is I’ve just I I mean I Love Trains but it’s just I absolutely love trains and they can be a pain in the ass sometimes in Europe especially going between countries and so you know if this service doesn’t talk to that one if one train is late and then you have to

Deal with the next service and and it’s certainly not perfect but but wow like train travel can just be so wonderful at times especially compared to airline travel which I did a lot of because I used to work a job where I was traveling more or less constantly uh and I’ve done

More plane travel than anybody should ever do in a lifetime it’s I and I’d be happy to never set foot on a plane again um unfortunately there’s no trains to Canada so I do have to do it sometimes still but man I will take a train over a

Plane every single time it’s possible like when we went to Switzerland for example we took um the Night Train it’s just it’s just so great I mean it’s just so much nicer to just you know you take public transit or or in our case maybe we cycle to the train

Station and then you know you get on a train it’s nice and comfortable there isn’t all that nonsense for security there isn’t even the nonsense with like you know put your your tray tables up and prepare for takeoff and all this stuff and all the the tiny seats and

It’s just it’s comfortable and you can get up and walk around there’s a bar car and like you know it’s just it’s just so nice to take the train you can look out the window you can continue using your mobile devices because you get service

The whole way it’s just nice I want to do although I definitely when I was watching your it was the it was the Switzerland one wasn’t it where you had the the trains with those gorgeous views yeah they are stunning and you know the funny thing with train holidays because they are

We did the glacier Express and that video is on nebula so you also might have seen that one but it’s only on nebula um uh about the the glacier express training that goes from umat to Saint Moritz and uh and it’s really nice with the glass and everything and they

They do a whole meal and all this stuff but but the thing is like even some of the local trains there are just really nice trains with big windows and it’s just a local train but it’s just it’s gorgeous you just you sit there in a comfortable seat with this like stunning

Window that that like overlaps a bit on the roof of the train and you can see all the mountains and the snow and it’s like like why would I travel any other way this is so simple someone’s just thought about that slightly differently and just going like what if this was

Nice right what if this was like a really it was nice which sometimes back so we’ve got um so the the train line in Southwest England the Great Western Railway um was built by izenberg Kingdom Brunel in whenever the man the man himself um and there is a bit where it uh goes

So he didn’t want it to go across the Moors because uh for whatever reason he wanted it to go by the Sea because that was going to be a sort of spectacular View and it is a fantastic View but it has been prone to occasionally uh

Flooding and then sort of just part of just we sort of get cut off for like right they built a slightly bigger flood wall now um right and it is a phantom like it is hard to I like I do a relative relatively large amount so it sort of maybe loses a bit

Of the kind of wow it’s just the sea one side of the train right but it is it is a cool uh it is it is a cool view I I remember uh when I was when I was younger um so my dad actually works in the

Trains which meant you which in the in the UK for some reason anyone who works sort of on or near a train seems to get I don’t know if they still do it a sort of discount card which um uh you sort of get 16 days free

Travel or something for you okay yeah maybe 21 day or something for yourself and and your spouse and and I think any dependent you have and it also had some sort of thing where he could get discounted travel um in other countries and on their train networks I guess it was something

Reciprocal thing um and so for the sort of big holiday we did uh as kids uh it obviously involved trains to sort of use this great discount um and so we got the train to Paris I think yeah we got the train to I know I think we’ve got the train to Rome

And then came back and did Paris on the way back all right we did the sleeper train through the Alps overnight and just the memory of doing that is one of those where it was I must have been like seven so I can’t so my memories of it aren’t particularly

Rich but it does have this sort of romantic uh element to it of sort of having this thing of being half asleep going through the Alps and that yeah and and a sort of amazing experience and I I think I think I’ve sort of managed to

Recreate it kind of once and me and my partner did we flew to Seattle and did the train that goes down the coast too all right yeah we actually went to San Francisco I think and then got a coach the last bit which which is about yes

Some of those Scenic trains are still in existence in um in the US and Canada as long as you’re not in a hurry they could be very they can be very nice yeah one through Canada is horrendously expensive uh but uh yeah that’s almost sort of okay I think

It had lots of tears but the bottom one was like fine we had a chair and a good view um but it was that there was sort of one a day a so any place we stopped we sort of got off at half three had a day or

Two there and then you got back on a half three um you know the same time which meant you couldn’t really maximize the time you had in a certain place because if you got off in uh 10 in the morning you were gonna have to

Back on and spend the day but um but it wasn’t a bad way to spend days sort of going through the the Rockies I don’t know if it’s the Rockies some sort of some foresty hills we went through um which were quite exciting because the

Train had to sort of do this all right yeah the switchbacks and everything yeah in in Europe they tend to have the tunnels especially in Switzerland so they don’t do the switchbacks anymore you’re just into a tunnel yeah and sometimes you’re in a very very long

Tunnel you know the thing is with trains is that it the travel can be really really enjoyable like the train itself can be part of the vacation and I think that’s something I feel is lost when traveling by car or by airplane where the travel is kind of just a pain in the

Ass and you just want to get it over with as fast as possible and and I always found that kind of frustrating when people talk about oh well you know it’s it’s this many hours to fly and and this many more hours to take the train so of course I’m Gonna

Fly I’m like yeah but flying sucks and taking the train doesn’t so um and even then sometimes when you add in getting to the airport early and all that other stuff it’s not even slower on the airplane but but even if it even if it

Is um sorry a slower on the on the train it’s it’s more enjoyable it’s just it’s just a nice way to travel and I think people that haven’t experienced good trains they just they don’t get that they don’t they’ve never experienced the idea that getting somewhere can be as

Enjoyable as getting there like being there you know it’s it’s a it’s a totally different way of looking at transportation and uh yes I’m very much in favor of more trains the more trains the better there’s something on like the gentle the sort of gentle like rumble of

Those kind of just suit just soothing in a way um and I’ll tell you the good trade lanes are great yeah so uh right before we had kids actually my wife was literally pregnant with our with our first child we took the train from Moscow to um Beijing uh through Mongolia

And through uh through um Russia and it was five and a half days and it was just phenomenal like you see all of Russia and Mongolia and you go into China and it’s just it’s phenomenal the things you see because also the things you see aren’t the things that you would

Normally see on a trip to any of those countries right especially going in China where you stop in some City you’ve never heard of that has two million people and the and the smog is so thick you can cut it with a knife but um but the thing was after that train

Ride five and a half days we just we loved it there was the there was the restaurant car and it changed when you went into a new country so it had Russian food and then it had Mongolian food and then a Chinese food uh it was just so interesting talking with the

Other um with the other passengers and we could sit and read and and of course then you sleep on on the train as well we had a private bathroom uh and um and it was just so nice that when the five and a half days were up we’re like we

Didn’t want it to end we’re like that’s it it’s done already like it was just it was fantastic and I just I can’t imagine any other way of getting around but then I would be like after five and a half days of it I mean five and a half

Days on an airplane I’d be ready to kill somebody I did have when when we did the with the American trip we did have the added bonus of one of the legs there was a national park ranger on the train who just sort of did a kind of tour thing of

Just going like nice this is this Lake this is its history and like that was which we didn’t know was gonna happen until I wandered down to the bar car and was like oh this is this is cool I was like come on down we’ve got like this is we’ve got this

Sort of free and that was one of those amazing cars where they’ve sort of made windows in the top as well and right right and I want that in the UK I won we’ve not got sort of mountains in quite the same way maybe for many of us but

The British Countryside can be quite nice as long as it’s not too close to a Motorway you know it’s uh yeah it can be quite nice people go up to the lake district and the Peak District and uh you know the Scottish Highlands are they’re stunning as well yeah yeah

They’d be good from they’d be good from from a train and yeah it is you keep going about this thing of like the the expansion of people being I was like I was just thinking about how there will be people who will be very excited for a

Good sort of 15-20 minutes of train content um which I was thinking the same thing we will talk about trains forever if you if you let me right so like maybe we should talk about something else because you know I know it’s not just bikes but it’s not just trains either so later

Um but but like that is like a but there is a whole uh move like like I I will if I mention trains in a video I will get a kind of trains just people writing the word trains as as entire that entire that’s the kind of woman the capital

Letters trains yeah yeah that’s the whole thing that’s like that’s a a thing you can be a fan of now like which I guess it always has been but but now it’s sort of I dare to say it it’s kind of it’s cool like like previously being a

Being a fan of a train was maybe not the the the the the in thing yeah the term that was used for them and it’s still used is is the people who like go and look at trains and watch trains are called foamers like they’re foaming at

The mouth they’re like okay which has a rabies connotation to it right that they’re these rabid foamers uh who are obsessed with trains you know I think actually uh it’s it’s a little bit sad but I think part of the reason for this uptick in interest in urban

Planning and better and walkable cities uh also comes from the fact that um younger people are just too poor to afford cars uh um and I honestly think that’s an element because when I see discussions in uh in in forums and subreddits where there are younger people talking about

Their work uh and about their pay and about the problems that they’re finding uh in the world it very often comes up especially with Americans they’ll say like you know I’d be so much better off if I didn’t need this car and I think that’s a big cultural shift because if

You look at Boomers Boomers were really steeped in car culture like really really steeped you look at their movies their TV shows their music I mean if you listen to anything by the Beach Boys half their music’s about cars you know if it’s not about surfing in California

It’s about the car they’re driving yeah um and and when you look at all of the the the 1950s and 60s type uh stuff that was on TV and in media it’s all the cars yeah and so the boomers are really all about the cars and I I would say they’ve even

Been exposed to extreme levels of propaganda about cars and I think that certainly continued I’m a gen xer um that continued through that you know that cars were were a thing the SUVs when I was researching about the history of SUVs again reminding myself of some

Of that because I had read high and mighty back in 2002 a book by a Detroit Auto journalist about the rise of SUVs which is one of the things that helped radicalize me but um I remember like uh one of the things I was reminded of is

That one of my favorite movies Back to the Future uh in that in that film Marty just cannot like he sees this this Toyota pickup truck right and he just really wants this Toyota pickup truck so badly and it’s actually like a core part of the story and at the end when when

The the pass gets changed and the future becomes perfect he owns that pickup truck now and and that again it’s like there there were these things that that I didn’t even wasn’t even consciously aware of at the time but there was so much of that car culture that went

Through my childhood and and the media that I consumed and then I was kind of success I think I don’t know if it’s a thatcher quote or if it’s someone uh sort of member of her cabinet that said that if you’re um I think like if a young man still

Catching the bus at the age of 25 he should consider himself a failure that the idea that if you’ve not that that’s it’s Independence and it’s also a kind of um that’s you being your own person in the world being a kind of proper individual rather than relying on you

Know this this vehicle that is being provided to you that’s by the state yeah yeah I’m surprised you were able to mention uh she Who Shall Not Be Named without a lightning bolt coming down and striking us both so maybe we won’t say the t word anymore in this discussion

But but yes uh she was uh just like Reagan and and in Canada there was a fellow called Brian mulrooney who was the similar that that just neo-liberal capitalism uh oh Jesus Christ those people but yes there was definitely this this um overarching message that that uh public transit is for poor people

Desperate people why would you be doing that and that stigma absolutely existed in my hometown um I remember uh I was actually just somebody had just sent me a clip of a previous podcast I had done because it came up in conversation I totally forgotten about it I went back and

Listened to it with the Chuck from strong towns and we were talking about public transportation and the way people feel about it and when I was growing up as a teenager like I was living in this in this suburb that was you know for a teenager especially boring as hell there

Was basically nothing within walking distance and so my friends and I would sometimes go downtown but to do that we had to go wait for a bus and the bus that was scheduled to come every 45 minutes but of course it didn’t usually would come 45 minutes late and two of

Them would come at once um the bus sucked and I remember when I turned 16 and I finally got my driver’s license I was like oh yes finally I’m free uh and I mentioned one of my videos the first thing I did was I drove to Wendy’s and bought a hamburger like that

Was oh my God I’m 16 I could buy my own hamburger like it’s so pathetic thinking back on it in retrospect to be honest it’s absolutely pathetic but the thing was the the bus was seen and I think still is seen today in my hometown as something that uh

You really only take if you’re poor or desperate and that sounds terrible but that’s simply the way that people look at it and the reason for that is I think it’s just an inferior mode of Transport but it doesn’t have to be an inferior mode of mode of Transport has just been

Made that way right yeah so it it’s it gets stuck in the same traffic as the cars as I’ve talked about hundreds of times before uh so yeah when when your buses are infrequent and unreliable and they’re all Clunkers that are like you know belching out black smoke and

They’re stuck in traffic and like of course you’re not going to take the bus if if you if you can afford a car um but I feel like that’s a self-fulfilling prophecy by making public transit so inferior and in making it not be something that’s used enough

That it means that the smaller routes have to be canceled because people get them and it does sort of spiral doesn’t it because you um yeah because you don’t you because if it’s not bringing in enough money to run that route then you can’t run that route

And therefore no one’s using it so someone else gets a car because that’s not a viable option anymore um which I think we struggle with in the UK where it means that both routes get canceled but also their fares have to go up because yeah less people have to pay for

Law of the bus running I guess um and that is that is your death spiral of public transit and we’re seeing it happen all over the world especially after covid where uh there was a drop in ridership and therefore income um even Amsterdam’s talking about cutting back uh some of the frequencies

On some of the tram and bus routes uh which is really sad uh but I think it also goes back to those people who shall not be named that we talked about from the 80s who really looked at at bringing the market into everything right it was all about the free market private

Ownership you’ve talked about this in your videos you talked about it with your your energy stuff too but it happened with public transportation as well this idea that the private the private uh the companies will run public transportation better and they’ll they’ll create competition within the system and that will create better

Service for everyone at a lower cost and that has been proven to be completely and totally wrong in almost all cases with very few exceptions you know if you look at for instance Japan where the public transit the train companies actually make most their money off of

Real estate Hong Kong is the same kind of kind of thing but privatization of these of these public transportation has been a horrible failure in almost every place that’s ever been attempted and certainly as you’ve seen it in the UK um and and I think it does happen that

Some of these roots you know they’re not bringing in enough money and so then they’re cut and then that starts that spiral but I think we have to back up a little bit here and say like well does it need to bring in that much money do

All of these routes need to be profitable or is there an overall societal benefit to having good quality Transit because otherwise like if you look at the small town that you say you grew up in and you you see these all over the place where public transit’s

Been cut back to one bus a day or something like that I mean if if that bus were running every half hour say um throughout most of the daylight hours there would be more people taking it there are almost certainly when those buses are cut back there are almost

Certainly people who went to driving whether they went and bought a car or whether they bought a second car or whether they started driving when they could have taken public transit or whatever it might be and what are the implications of that when you suddenly have hundreds of these little towns

Where everybody is now driving and basically nobody’s taking public transportation anymore what are the impacts of society of that and we also then start to get these these uh where we’re trying to reduce the number of automobiles in cities but then all of the people who live in the peripheral

Town say well I have to drive in I have no other choice and then that becomes a a factor that pushes back against making the cities better and then we end up with all these problems with too many cars in the cities and all of the negative things that happen from that

And a lot of that just stems from the fact that we went and said although the public transit needs to be profitable all the public transit needs to you know every route needs to bring in money and otherwise it gets cut and you know and I think as a society we’re paying the

Price for for that kind of short-sighted vision for public transit that is particularly frustrating of course when the roads are subsidized like crazy because there is a social good to people being like like I what one thing I think of is you know in that Village that I

Grew up in the population sort of leaned older uh right and you know there was probably either well there’s certainly uh older people who either were then kind of just cut off um you know maybe you know probably had good social social networks within the The Village itself but suddenly couldn’t

Go into the slightly bigger town or go to the Village over or to town after that to um go to the slightly bigger Supermarket themselves or to um go to the slightly bigger wi group or whatever their particular um you know play tennis to whatever something that we didn’t have in the village

Um or stays driving slightly longer than um yeah then it’s probably safe probably have probably a a great idea um because they kind of that’s their only way to you know go and see their mate Fred um who who lives somewhere where the boss could have taken them um

Uh but it’s interesting the the that you brought up the kind of opposite end of that of of younger people who for whom car ownership is actually who are rethinking things because car ownership is maybe not affordable or at least not a sensible uh financial decision to make like I

Don’t think I’ve necessarily thought of it myself in quite that way but I think that’s probably where my sort of relationship I think like I said earlier we’ve we’ve got a car that um that my partner uses to get to work from my point of view it’s it’s you know I need

To do something in particular where I need to transport something or we have to go somewhere where a train can’t take us or it’s just too expensive because UK trains are really expensive and we need to get four of us somewhere or something um and so like my my approach to sort of

Our car is is this is a very specific thing that is like a tool that I use on particular um occasions and I think that is just from having had I sort of learned to drive when I was 17 and then it drove my mum’s car for a bit after that but then

Just sort of didn’t have a car for a decade because it never quite it was never quite affordable or never quite seemed like the trade-off like spending however much on the car and insurance and all of that never quite made sense for the sort of benefits I

Was going to get out of it so it does mean that I didn’t have that kind of um you know the James Dean film kind of thing of like getting the car when you’re when you’re 17. yeah exactly right which we’re growing up rarely like

I’ve uh you know what my one of my brothers friends at the time his life revolved around his car that was you know in very much that same way that was everything it was getting the speakers on the back um not to really drive anywhere in particular I don’t think we’ll just sort

Of drive around um it becomes part of your identity right yeah whereas whereas whereas yeah I think I imagine sort of my experience Imaging lots of people who are um now enthusiastically orange pilled uh members of cars um have maybe had a slightly different experience so you you sort of view it

Through a slightly different lens of this is a tool like a news rather than a um rather than something that is part of my uh I don’t know like certainly at some people when they budget they have a car payment that is definitely something they would have to include rather than a

Thing that is an option that you could have yeah I mean I think ultimately that’s what my channel is really about it’s about car dependency being dependent on a car is a bad thing and it benefits absolutely nobody except the people who sell cars uh car dependency

Is is horrible and and huge parts of the US and Canada are car dependent there’s parts of Europe that are car dependent but not in the same way that they are in North America because even even a car dependent place in Europe um will still have a local High Street

Or something like that right like there may there’ll be still be some services that are within walking distance um and there are at least some Alternatives a car may still be the fastest way to get around but it’s not car dependent it’s not like you literally can’t feed yourself without

Getting in a car and that is the situation in large parts of North America and so you’re basically burdening everyone in society with the cost of a car and sometimes you need to have two cars you know for example if you have you know two people in a

Household and they both work and you also start to see it I mean I see it all over Canada where you know the kids turn 16 and the kids need a car because the parents are tired of driving them to high school every day and and it’s absurd uh it’s absolutely absurd that

You would need a car uh I think needing a car is insane and I think that we should push back against that in any way possible I I would love to see it that cars stop being cool they stop being this like this this this status symbol

That people are desperate to own and they just become a tool you know like like like I have I have a circular saw and I used the circular saw when I need it to cut something but I’m not using it for everything you know you’re not looking you know you’re not stood there

Just looking around guys like what can I use this song you know you know the you know the phrase yeah when all you have is it when all you have is an SUV everything looks like a drive right so um so yeah there’s actually a uh there’s actually a fellow

In the UK who uh who started a some a organization called bike is better and it and it’s uh if they do a public service announcement in the UK about uh how short you know for short trips take a bike basically but they have this really funny video where they show

People like using tools for completely ridiculous things like using a blowtorch to light a candle and things like that and it’s quite funny and then at the end of the video of all these absurd things they show a guy with a single jug of

Milk and he puts it in the back of his truck and it’s the same thing right like why why are you buying if you need a single jug of milk why would you do it in two tons of steel it’s absurd and I think that’s really it

Um and I I I think that’s you know fun cars are useful as I said at the beginning of this and we drive sometimes too we don’t own a car uh because we live in a place uh where owning a car would be a liability it wouldn’t be a

Benefit like it would be one more thing to worry about we’d have to pay to insure it and it’s out on the street and we need to make sure that it doesn’t get scratched or broken into or whatever and it really doesn’t provide us any serious

Benefit uh so we use a car share program so those are shared cars that are around the town and there’s lots of car share programs and if I need a car I can go get one I can open an app and I can have a car within a couple of minutes uh and

That’s fine I rarely rarely use a car uh just because it’s it’s not necessary and I and I would like I I think that’s the way that most people should be able to live that it’s an option uh but it sure as hell isn’t a requirement

And I think well I think what I find really interesting about about your channel and some of the other channels that do a similar thing and the kind of also the sort of broader movement that has come to exist around it is the fact that I guess yes there is a subreddit

Called cars and some of it is very is is about being anti car but there’s also there’s not just there’s not just a no there is also lots of yeses and I feel like that I I have learned a huge amount of like I

Can now I can look at the city in which I live and I can not only go oh I think that thing doesn’t work I can go oh I think this area should be pedestrianized and I think right this um and I’m like passionate about the things like it

Feels like there’s lots of yeses in a really positive way um we we’ve recently got uh what I think it’s just launching at the moment a bike scheme I think it is uh like ones you pick up and and I think they’re slightly too expensive and I feel really

Passionate about the I’ve got this thing where I’m like I’m really passionate about this scheme existing and I think it should exist and be good I think there’s a problem with it that I think needs to be worked out um but it feels like a really kind of positive

Thing rather than just a um Justin nugget which is which I think is is what makes it kind of really exciting for me um do you see that as well or do you just I do although I can be plenty negative at times because uh because I

Do get angry at this stuff uh you know what’s interesting though even cars is actually quite a positive subreddit and in many ways I would say they’re often more positive like they do lots of meme stuff and that’s you know they love it um and that’s great but they are can

Actually be even more positive than my content I find over on on cars and I actually think that um the name cars is a little bit uh deceiving but at the same time we wouldn’t be talking about it right now if it were called n car dependency right like nobody would

Care the cars gets the name because I think people that are waking up to this you know outside of my channel outside of being orange pilled there are people who are waking up to this where they have been steeped in Auto industry propaganda their entire lives and uh and and to say

That a car is a necessity and it’s something that you should strive for and it’s something and as soon as you get your license you will want to do this and then when they see something like cars they’re like what what are you talking about like you crazy

But then it causes them to sort of look at it and go you know what now that you mention it there are all these negatives that come along with this as well and and I think I think that does catch people’s attention um so yes there there is a positive

Angle to it as well but there’s definitely going to be a lot of negativity because as I said I feel like we got too excited about this new technology when the automobile came along and I feel like we went all in on it and we really do need to bring it

Back and I think that that’s going to be a difficult thing for a lot of reasons it’s difficult to change the status quo period especially when it’s entrenched with a lot of you know fossil fuel industry interests automobile industry interests and lots of all the things that that stretch out

From those Industries too so it’s going to be a tough thing to claw back but I think ultimately it’s going to be better for everyone to claw it back and I think when it comes to cars again I really want to see it used as a tool in the

Toolbox not to be the only thing that we have at our disposal and I and I thought I want us to look at this and say like what do you really need cars for because that’s one of the other things that’s really frustrated me about this conversation as I’ve orange pilled

Myself on this coming from car dependent Suburbia and thinking that you know for example when I lived without a car uh through University I would have people telling me Oh yeah yeah but when you get a real job you’re going to want a car and then I got a real job and I

Took the streetcar there but then people would say yeah but but when you have kids you’re going to want a car you’re going to need a car when you have kids then we had kids and actually it was perfectly fine we could walk to the

School we could we could take the kid on a bike and Not only was it possible it was actually better because we did live for example when we lived in Belgium because of where my wife and I worked we needed to own a car and actually it was

The only time in our entire lives that we owned two cars because we both needed a drive to work and that was in Brussels and and it actually kind of sucked to take the kids to school in a car it was much less comfortable the kids are strapped into these car seats and

Comparing that to taking the kids like we’ve done here in a cargo Bike Night and Day cargo bike is a thousand times better for kids and so again it’s like there’s these compounding lies that I’ve been told my whole life that oh you know oh if you were disabled you will need to

Have a car a very common one that we hear all the time and yet here in Amsterdam I see disabled people on tricycles and mobility scooters I see them all the time every single day I see a disabled person out uh and they are getting around just fine and I hear

Constantly uh from people who watch my channel who are physically disabled who will say to me I can’t drive a car because of my disability I’m not allowed to get a driver’s license or I am not physically able to drive a car or whatever there’s a huge percentage of

The disabled population who can’t drive and yet people are out there saying no we need to keep the cars because of disabled people people and those people are just totally being ignored those people who are disabled and can’t drive aren’t being hurt same thing with seniors that oh seniors need cars to get

Around but again I see people in their 80s and 90s here cycling or on tricycles or on mobility Scooters or on public transit and it’s serving these people very well and I think this is really what we have to do we have to start using cars as a tool when necessary and

When they are useful and reducing the societal costs to those because having everybody in a car is a bad thing we’ve seen it in the United States it it’s terrible uh we don’t want to go down that road but let’s also be honest with ourselves like use a car when it’s really necessary

Have cars when they’re really necessary well anyway what a way to to round us off and I think I think that’s it right that was that was a really good like uh final stump speech for the for the episode I think um for the kind of two people listening who

Are like wait not just not just what sorry what uh who who’s this who’s who’s this guy who hasn’t seen it yet not just bikes if you search for not just bikes you’ll find it it’s most it’s mostly on YouTube but I’ve stretched out I have started a podcast actually called the

Urbanist agenda where I’m talking with other urbanists about uh about all the things that we are talk about but I haven’t turned into videos yet and so hopefully that seems to be actually taking off quite well uh it’s just the first couple episodes episode three is coming out soon with RM Transit

And it’s been that’s been great I’m looking forward to checking it out because I think it’s good it’s gonna be interesting to hear um lots of lots of creators that sort of create things except really sort of find the the things that you agree on and the

Things that maybe you don’t and the ways your experiences overlap I’m sure it’s going to be fascinating yeah and the things that we learn from each other too because like for example I was the second episode I was talking with Alan Fisher from the YouTube channel Alan Fisher

Um about micro mobility and you know these these electric scooters and one wheels and all these other things that you see around and most of those things are illegal in the Netherlands and I’ve never ridden them at all and so it was fascinating to hear from Alan who not

Only uh has written these things he used to make his own electric longboards uh when he was in university and he even worked for an electric scooter company one of those rental scooters that used with an app and so it was fascinating to hear from him about that experience and

Where he sees them fitting in and and what it’s like in Philadelphia where he lives now about when people use them and how they combine them with public transit and it’s actually really really interesting I learned a lot okay and that’s the urbanist agenda the urbanist

Agenda yep cool and well thank you so much for uh joining me Jason um I was going to do around her Applause but it’s just me so that’ll be very sad I’m gonna get I’m hopefully at some point I’ll get good at hosting podcasts uh not trying to do a round of applause

With an audience who’s not going to listen for a couple of weeks time uh but thank you so much for joining me and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your evening yeah thanks so much time it was great thank you so much for listening to my

Chat with Jason from not just bikes I hope you found it interesting and enjoyable in some way as I mentioned during the show if you want to be among the first to get access to new episodes of induction as they come out then you can do so by signing up to my premium

Streaming service nebula to get the best deal on nebula while supporting us to make more episodes like this one you can head to go.nebula.tv forward slash induction thank you so much again for listening and I’ll catch you in the next episode of the show

ID: rWadiYLIAps
Time: 1681922795
Date: 2023-04-19 21:16:35
Duration: 01:13:53

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