Title:طراحی سایت محیطی در مقابل رشد هوشمند

۲۰۱۱-۱۱-۱۱ ارائه دهندگان: David S. Ager، AICP و Michael Wagner، PE این وب‌کست فقط برای مشاهده در دسترس است، برای اعتبارات AICP CM قابل استفاده نیست. قوانین جدید آب طوفان در هر دو سطح ملی و محلی، پروژه های ساختمانی را در محیط های شهری گران تر و از نظر فنی چالش برانگیزتر می کند. قانون جدید آب طوفان مریلند و قانون خلیج چساپیک TMDL چندین سؤال را در مورد اجرای پروژه‌های قابل پیاده‌روی، تراکم بالاتر و پروژه‌های ترانزیت محور ایجاد کرده است. مقررات آب طوفان مریلند به یک رویکرد توسعه کم تاثیر برای طراحی آب طوفان در سراسر ایالت، از جمله مناطق شهری موجود و سایت‌های توسعه با تراکم بالا نیاز دارد. مریلند به این استاندارد به عنوان “طراحی سایت حساس به محیط زیست تا حداکثر حد ممکن” یا “ESD برای MEP” اشاره می کند. استفاده از ESD در شیوه‌های MEP در مناطق شهری به دلیل خاک‌های فشرده و آلوده، محدودیت‌های فضا و ارزش زمین دشوارتر و گران‌تر است. بنابراین یک قانون «توسعه مجدد» کمتر سختگیرانه توسط مریلند به منظور جبران این محدودیت ها و هزینه ها اتخاذ شد. با این حال، همه پروژه‌ها این آستانه توسعه مجدد را برآورده نمی‌کنند و باید الزامات کیفیت آب بسیار خاصی را در محیط‌های شهری تنگ با گزینه‌های طراحی تایید شده محدود برآورده کنند. در این جلسه مروری کلی بر مقررات جاری ارائه خواهد شد. شناسایی نگرانی ها، هزینه ها و موانع فنی؛ اثرات بالقوه بر توسعه شهری و ترانزیت محور، و استراتژی های عملی برای دستیابی به اهداف برای حفاظت از محیط زیست و توسعه شهری با تراکم بالا. شرکت کنندگان با درک اساسی از شیوه های ESD، تأثیر آنها بر رشد هوشمند و تکنیک های سازنده و استراتژی های پیاده سازی را ترک خواهند کرد. این جلسه برای برنامه ریزان علاقه مند به توسعه کم تاثیر، جوامع سبز، برنامه ریزی شهری، رشد هوشمند، طراحی ترکیبی، شهرسازی جدید، طراحی شهری، احیا و اجرای منطقه بندی جذابیت گسترده ای خواهد داشت.

قسمتي از متن فيلم: Hello my name is Brittany Kavinsky and I just want to welcome everyone it is now 1:00 p.m. so we will begin our presentation shortly today on Friday November 11th we have our presentation on environmental site design vs. smart growth given by David ager and Michael Wagner for help during today’s webcast

Please feel free to type your questions in the chat box found in the webinar tool bar to the right of your screen or call 1-800 two six three six three one seven for content questions please feel free to type those in the questions box and we will be able to answer those at

The end of the presentation during the question and answer session here’s a list of the sponsoring chapters divisions and universities I would like to thank all of the participating chapters divisions and universities for making these webcasts possible as you can see we have quite a few webcasts

Coming up in the next few months to register for these upcoming webcasts please visit www.gfi.com/webmonitor for the end of the year these webcasts are available to view at WWE Utah APA org slash webcast archive you can now follow us on twitter at planning webcast or like us on facebook planning webcast

Series to receive up-to-date information on the planning webcast series sponsored by chapters divisions and universities to log your CM credits for attending today’s webcast please go to WWE and org slash CM select today’s date Friday November 11th and then select today’s webcast environmental site design vs. smart growth this webcast is available

For one and a half CM credits we are recording today’s webcast and it will be available along with a six slide per page PDF of the presentation at WWE Utah APA org slash webcast archives at this time I would like to introduce our speakers for today David ager and

Michael Wagner David ager is the founding principle of townscape design and an award-winning town planning firm located in Clarks Maryland David is a town planner and landscape architect with 30 years experience providing creative solutions with a strong sense of place and a framework for long-term sustainability towns gave design partners with

Communities and owners in order to create economically vibrant and beautiful places while enhancing their land assets through the use of practical and sustainable design and implement implementation strategies townscape design works with private sector nonprofit and public sector clients the firm utilizes an integrated systems approach to town planning and urban

Design through its complete Town Planning method methodology in addition to the American Institute of Certified planners David is also a member of the Congress for the New Urbanism the American Society of landscape architects in the National Association of Homebuilders he’s a registered Landscape Architect in Maryland Virginia and Delaware he is a

Graduate and dean’s medal recipient from Louisiana State University Michael Wagener is a senior project manager and an associate with Lloyd ermine Solstice associates mr. Wagner has over 35 years of experience primarily focused in Water Resources design his extensive experience includes stormwater management infiltration and other water quality systems he also has prepared

Floodplain studies and watershed analysis for projects with drainage areas ranging from 30 acres to 70 square miles and he recently completed an analysis to resolve a major flooding issue with a seven miles seven square mile watershed throughout his career mr. Wagner has provided clients with creative cost-effective solutions in

Regards to stormwater management design and sediment and erosion control permitting example of past projects he managed that face water resource challenges our conter Town Center various Prince George’s County Road improvements and King farm recently mr. Wagner assisted in shaping MDE stormwater management manual mr. Wagner’s reputation in the water

Resource field led to the request for him to revise the Prince George’s County storm drain and stormwater management manual to incorporate the new ESD requirements this assessment this assignment requires close coordination with Maryland National Park and Planning Commission Washington suburban Sanitary Commission Department of Public Works and transportation among others mr.

Wagner received his degree in civil engineering at Purdue University and is a member of Maryland national cap building industry association let’s welcome David and Michael Thank You Brittany this is Dave agar from townscape design welcome everybody and thank you for the joining us for this webinar one of the things that’s

Interesting about this is we’ve had a long history of storm water legislation and changes here in Maryland it’s more more profoundly in the Chesapeake Bay region we’re the largest TMDL in the country and that has caused a lot of changes in the way we do business with respect to

Stormwater and stormwater cleansing this presentation is the presentation we did at a regional conference in West Virginia Pennsylvania Maryland in Cumberland Maryland earlier this year that sparked some ideas and some thoughts at the state level we are basically concerned or have identified concerns with respect to the way Environmental Design site design

Specifically the way stormwater is is done in the state of Maryland and directly related to how it may be in conflict with Smart Growth principles here in Maryland so that’s the best was the genesis of this presentation and then we were asked to kind of repeat it

Yesterday at a at a state level conference and here today so um we’re going to be talking a lot about Maryland and the Chesapeake Bay and we apologize for that but it’s maybe something that’s applicable to your local communities throughout the country so quickly what we’re going to talk about is smart

Growth as the best BMP available so if the question is what’s the problem and really of what it comes down to is regulations and implementation I’m gonna go I’m gonna kind of set the stage and then I’ll turn it over to Mike Wagner he’s going to go through some history

Which is important because really what’s happened in the in the state is we started back in the early 70s with floodplain management as our basic you know stormwater management and essentially over time the management practice has moved up the watershed to the point where now we are treating

Water immediately at the point of discharge at the top of the watershed versus the bottom and that’s essentially what ESD is so we help go through that history in more detail and then we’ll come back and we’ll walk through some recommendations or some thoughts that we’ve had at the state level here in

Maryland that may be applicable throughout the country because we’re somewhat at the guinea pig for this sort of practice and it may be applied elsewhere in the future so quickly some terminology here in Maryland we call a low-impact development essentially environmental sensitive design you may hear best management practices sustainable stormwater management used

In other parts of the country it’s essentially all the same thing it’s bringing the the watershed practice as close as possible to the point of origin and treating it for both quantity and quality control and specifically for pollutant and nutrient reduction and then here in Maryland we generally refer

To smart growth but in other places you may hear it referred to as green urbanism walkable urbanism sustainable urbanism etc etc but it’s the it’s the it’s the concept of of organizing the place for maximum walkability and efficiency and making it truly a place for people I’m not going to go through

This in great detail but these are the ten Smart Growth principles that are used not only here in Maryland but all have been you can find these on the website at EPA but they and what it is it’s it’s essentially organizing your place to be as efficient as possible to

Use your resources as succinctly as possible so why are we in the situation we’re in very quickly there’s a process going on in in the Chesapeake watershed we’re monitoring the performance of the watershed and the watershed had been actually increasing in performance for getting better over the

Last four years but in 2010 we had a problem additionally in 2009 and 2010 there were some legal battles that have made the implementation of this ESD process mandatory versus voluntary which was in the past we essentially weren’t meeting our goals fast enough to clean up the bay and

Here’s some information you can go on again there’s tremendous information at the end of this web webinar a series of lengths that will also be in the PDF they can link to all the information that we’re providing during the session one of the biggest problems we have here

Is 10% of the watershed is now in turf managed turf so we have a tremendous effluent overload due to turf and it’s actually a greater amount of nitrogen and phosphorus or as bad as our agricultural practices so we have specific suggestions for that in this presentation but this is this is just

One example of some of the things that we’re doing here in this watershed that are a problem the interesting thing about the concept of smart growth or you know transit oriented development or whatever you would like to call it locally the interesting thing is it is recognized nationally and out here at

The state level as the smart growth technique for for keeping the bay clean and appropriate or keeping a watershed is clean and appropriate the problem is that it typically doesn’t transform from theory into practice here in May and just some real quick notes here in Chesapeake Bay it’s over a five state

Region included all the way up into New York here’s a quick link to the to the site on the Chesapeake Bay TMDL and TMDLs for folks who are not familiar is total maximum daily loads and that has to do with sediment nitrogen and phosphorous impacts on the watershed and this is a

Again a a resolution of the settlement agreement back in 2010 and President Obama’s executive order of May 2009 so we are we are under the authority of the legislature and the in the courts to get this resolved and we have time deadlines and Mike will talk about that in the

Future now there are several publications that not only are people advocating smart growth from several different locations that Congress for New Urbanism but for example has put out several informational packets on this but even the EPA has their own recently best management practices that talks about Smart Growth Smart Growth as a

Best management practice but at the same time with all this information all the theory out there and all of the logic associated with it it doesn’t seem to be translating into practice and we’re we’ve identified these problems here and merrily maybe problems elsewhere so we’ll talk about those later in the

Broadcast so there’s three very high-level opportunities here in the in the court in the in the watershed primarily our corridor reinvestment this is an example from Virginia done by Dover coal is the rege reaming of of the watershed and so the question is we go through these that you may want to be

Thinking about is what is it how do i integrate stormwater management into this sort of environment and still make it an economically viable we reinvestment in redevelopment we have our our towns and villages these are excellent opportunities for infill development and it’s already been identified that that infill development

Has a tenfold benefit associated with it versus the same level of development on the fringe of these towns abilities so the state of Maryland has a very strong state proposal that’s as a draft state comprehensive plan called plan Maryland where we’re focused priority funding within these existing towns and villages

And anyone who wants to develop outside the town if allowed by the local jurisdictions would would not have any financial or support from the state level and finally we have the opportunity for redevelopment we have brownfields great fields throughout the watershed these have a a four and a half fold benefit versus

Fringe development and the and the ability to integrate stormwater management in all three of these opportunities is is tremendous so the question is how do we integrate in an environment something like this and this is in Northern Virginia again this is Silver Spring Maryland a more than 500

Million dollar investment by the state that was started about ten years ago and the question I’m putting on the table is what would this look like if we had to perform stormwater management for every state three thousand square feet of drainage area or every 10,000 square feet of drainage area and several the

Practices that we’ll go through later on actually limit or most of them limit your drainage area to a maximum of say 10,000 square feet there’s only a few beyond that so how would this be different on this investment by the state is tremendous invested by state is

Very successful this is a project in North Carolina it’s in Charlotte it’s called off for those place the reason I bring this up is in one of the identified problems here in Maryland is the concept of new development versus redevelopment and we have a sharp break in the benefit or the credits associated

With redevelopment redevelopment has to provide improvements or water quality for 50% of the impervious surface that’s that’s already on the ground or it has to remove 50% or some combination but in new development essentially a Greenfield which this project was you really have to start from square one and control the

Full one inch in and so a reality check here is how would this project be different and and we thought if that if we had to break it down into these are quarter acre these are 10,000 square foot drainage areas but it you know quite likely you could break those down

Into two or three smaller drainage areas so the the whole concept of ESD has really integrated planning engineering environmental signs all into one package and it’s no longer the case where you can start to develop a plan without really thinking through at a high level to detail these sorts of practices at

The early planning stages just a real quick example again I’m posing the question one of our original green cities in the Savannah is savanna and yet these green areas the boulevards the parks are absolutely beautiful and gorgeous and they act as public amenities and benefits they also act as

Cooling features within the town to keep it cooler because it’s in the lowlands low country but these green areas are not ESD features so what would how would we you know rethink a place like this well here in here in Merrell this is an example this is a DPZ project it’s in

Rockville maryland there’s a redevelopment of an office park along interstate 270 and the idea here is a total integration of ESD concepts from from the you know as a redevelopment project and again this is benefits because it has more than 40% of the existing ground area in impervious cover

So it doesn’t have to the entire new limit of disturbance but only has to control the 50% and so the concept here is to integrate new buildings with green roofs integrated bioretention within the street systems there’s going to be dry wells and things like that and then a series of caps so

To speak on the parking decks these are trellises to help remove some of that impervious cover essentially from the from the stormwater process but yet this was designed before the ESD legislation occurred so some of this may have to be re-evaluated these drainage areas may be

Too large or or there may be other features that may not specifically meet this criteria so these are the questions that we’re going to walk through during the webinar series here that may or may not be a problem in your areas you may have resolved and we’d like to hear from

You if you have but these are problems that we’re going to start to talk about here in Maryland and try and resolve the next round of of amendments to our does our statewide design manual so at this point I’m going to turn it over to Mike Wagner he’s gonna walk you through some

Of the more technical ends of the stormwater thank you Dave very happy to be here today this is sort of a very brief legislative history starting with the federal Water Pollution Control Act in 1972 and primarily dealing with how Maryland has tried to implement it locally on bringing up my screen here

And in 2000 Maryland has passed a law that mandated that the first inch of rainfall would be treated by a for were quality and a 1 year storm would be controlled back to what’s called extended detention rate for the Maryland area and this applied to other parts of the country

But not everywhere the bank full elevation of the natural stream is approximately one year storm so by controlling that one year storm as opposed to a two year or a ten year which is in the previous laws you have a better chance of not causing erosion so

Some of the other things about Maryland area in this does vary across the country eighty-five to ninety percent of all of our rainfall events are less than one inch and effectively eighty to eighty-five percent of the total rainfall volume in one year would then be treated or peak controlled by these

Devices that’s an awful lot of water the old style of stormwater management allows you to put in ponds or underground facilities when you got into very dense areas and you would still could address downstream flooding by in the ponds by controlling two to a 10 or

۱۰۰ years long now put together a little bit of information about rainfall from around the country and where I work which is in Prince George’s County Maryland our one-year 24 hour rainfall event is 2.7 inches as you can see in Charlotte North Carolina it’s 2.8 out in

Tucson it’s 1.4 that’s a very big difference as to how much water you either need to control or how much you can might want to size a device Tucson might have it might be allow twice the area coming to each device that we would in our area so you don’t hydrologically

Overwhelm a facility now this would been a typical water quality facility designed back under the 2000 law and it would have been treating the one inch of rainfall for the area that drains to it this is as you can see it was done night and 2003 and it’s still going pretty

Good and this was a facility that was installed about three years ago and it had just been completed at this time it serves a 242 unit condos project and this is the smaller of the two facilities but again it’s designed just for the one-inch storm in 2007 Maryland

Changed the law they were concerned the that we still had watercolor degradation it wasn’t enough groundwater recharge and the low flow volume during dry periods just wasn’t there in the screenings plus extreme erosion was still occurring so they came up with an environmental site design to the maximum

Extent practicable and this is what makes it a little bit more interesting than what has happened in the past they’re requiring a more holistic integrated approach to design they don’t want a planner to put something together to turn it over to an architect who then

Turns it over to an engineer in order to do design they want all the people to be involved up front to evaluate what you can put out there and what environmental features you need to preserve and how you’re going to meet the goals of the wall the good news from an engineering

Point of view the total water volume is still similar to the 2,000 design manual and they do now require they’re trying to require that you can take your water quality volume which is your one inch storm and combine it with your channel protection volume which is your 1 year

Storm and you put it in a lot of small devices with a very small contributing areas a good way of thinking about it instead of having a big stack of pancakes on your plate you’re taking a whole bunch of silverdollar pancakes and scattering them around on the table

That’s sort of a visual type impact and this is ESD to the MEP definition for the Maryland law using small-scale stormwater management practices non structural techniques and better site planning to mimic natural hydrologic runoff characteristics and minimize the impacts of land development and Water Resources and so what they’re trying to

Do is save trees cut down on impervious surfaces I’ll talk about that a little bit later on put your devices as close to the building as possible or as close to the where it’s occurring don’t let it get into a storm drain pipe flow a distance and then before you

Start treating it and start using other non structural practices or innovative technologies approved by the state now they’ve set up this three-step process a concept playing also locally known as a stormwater concept plan a lot of people may understand that as something like a schematic design plan then you have a

Site de belem plan this is where you’ve got your pretty much you’ve got your design done you’ve got your grading done you’ve got your volumes correct you’re working it in with the homes or the buildings that are being constructed with the paving similar to a design development pipe level in a project and

Then the final plan which is your 100% construction drawings this is a matrix that was put together for Prince George’s County and I don’t know there’s some house they have a number of practices green roof permeable concrete reinforced turf disconnection so we go across six different items there then

You’re looking at soils high ground water who’s going to do the maintenance the type of residential that it might apply to or the drainage area for the individual practice so using will take permeable concrete I have a B soil so yes I can use that who is going to

Maintain it well usually that’s on a private area so the local court County DPW is not maintained as it can be privately maintained they are not going to loud in the road right-of-way it could apply to any residential lot of any sized multifamily it could apply to commercial and then the drainage areas

Is limited to greater than ten thousand square feet which is good and these are a couple of examples the one on the left is a green roof the permeable concrete is the red shaded area on the street and then you can see some reinforced turf on the right side and then we continued

With the various types of micro practices so you have rainwater harvesting such as cisterns and rain barrels submerge gravel wetlands landscape infiltration infiltration berms dry wells micro bio retention rain gardens grass swells bioswales and then sort of a and then also wets Wales and again we have the same setup where you

Look at the individual soils the hydrologic soil group from SES in our area we have something called Marlborough clay that’s very bad stuff to build on if it gets wet it’s slide so if there is something building on if something’s gonna be built on it you

Have to approach it in a much different way that’s part of the concept plan you want to identify that and identify how you’re going to deal with the Marlborough clay or if you have something similar and so if we take micro bio retention which will be a

Popular device in this area we can see that we want to try and put it in where the area’s five percent or less that’s the surrounding rated area I can put it on an A or B soil and I’ve lost my mouse

There it is on a C or D if I put in an under drain same thing with the Marlborough clay or compacted fill it’s going to be maintained privately in the county at this time was only going to allow on common areas they weren’t going to allow it in a someone’s backyard and

Then of course it applies to a commercial area stormwater hotspots they don’t want that because they don’t want the water going into the ground as infiltration and then the drainage areas it’s good up to about twenty thousand square feet of impervious area and then here’s sort of a little graphic showing the

Different types of devices and some of the maximum areas that would drain to now this is a little micro bio retention facility it’s just maybe two parking spaces wide and too deep and it this is what they’re looking for for doing micro bio retention this happens to be at the

County Building which makes it easier to mean necessarily maintain at least keep an eye on to see how it’s working because this public comes to pick up a permit they can start getting educated about what’s going on and what they’re gonna have to do and this is a typical

Another example of how you might implement micro bio retention insight one of the problems with micro bio retention rain gardens landscape infiltration at least in Maryland is that there is a planting media and also known as a made soil and it’s sort of a combination of sand leaf mulch or

Something somewhere that and topsoil you don’t want any clay in it that has to be handmade you just can’t bring in soil from elsewhere and use that so it gets much more expensive to construct something out of our retention but it is very effective in doing pollutant reductions in general what we’re finding

In Maryland because of our rainfall amounts that if you’re going to put in surface features you’re going to need 15 to 20 percent of your site is going to be messy set aside for these features you have to start counting on the fact that they’re going in it could reduce

Building square footage you may not be able to put in some of the site improvements you’d like to see you may end up with a slightly less dense development and by that I mean fewer units or less square footage the ESD green space is not available for passive direct active record

Unless structural measures or then if you need that been structural measures would be required however one benefit is if you set aside an area for stormwater management which is usually five to seven percent of a drainage area you would be able to use that to help

Achieve or make up some of your density loss some other problems the denser the development the more difficult it is achieve environmental site design without structural practices the intent of Maryland law is to not forbid structural practices such as an underground facility or stormwater pond but to encourage you to do everything

Possible to avoid it however if you have to have a very dense project project especially if you’re going into smart trying to do smart growth it begs you to put in underground stormwater management you need to start looking at what impervious areas can you remove can you

End up with a narrower road drive Isles that you have a 25-foot drive I’ll mandated by your local jurisdiction did you get by with twenty two yours parking spaces be nine feet wide as opposed to nine and a half that saves you ten percent green space you keep the same

Number of parking but if you can cut the the parking bays down by ten percent that’s green area that your book that’s area that’s gonna be able to use to create the green area to help treat that you also have to be able to get by in by

The user that’s either the homeowner or the property owner who has it on his site and something we have found recently linear projects approach a hundred percent increase in right-of-way to accommodate these practices and this is a good example of this this is the road that’s going in right now and every

One of these is a micro bio retention facility this is a four-lane road and as you can see it has a dramatic increase on what’s going on for impact to the environment general design considerations but for low-hanging fruits dry wells don’t take up space surface wise use them they’re

Also a little bit cheaper if you can apply get something to have more than one function use it porous paving access paving a green roof is possible both of them are more expensive when you have landscaping requirements usually escaping islands in order to meet your best management practice requirements

Consider cisterns those are very useful for getting water off a roof holding it and then using that either for landscaping irrigation or reuse in a building that’s a very big important consideration especially in areas or I have drier climates you also need to make it constructible I know people like

To have something looking natural and you actually construct that it gets very difficult using machine to do a very sharp curve which means you then go into hand labor that slows down the whole process rectangular is great but I know it doesn’t look very natural you

Also have to make sure that someone can maintain it how do you get to it what sort of access will be provided a maintenance schedule how often do you have to come out there lack of maintenance means all the money spent to construct the ESD is just being washed

Down in the stream and you don’t get any effective pollutant removal or peak flow control and I’ve talked about the made soil earlier we’re finding that cost over $100 a cubic yard in this area and cheaper alternatives need to be found this is sort of a little guidance menu

For water quality features and I’m going to concentrate because this is a smart growth on the street tree system if you have about 120 square feet of a street tree system you’re able to treat a thousand square feet of impervious area if you’re doing your re SC the MEP which

Is our 2.7 inch rainfall or 2,500 square feet if it is just the the one inch of rainfall we’ve put together the same table for a hydrologic see soil now this is a typical section when you’re trying to identify an area or in an existing

Area and you don’t have a whole lot of room out there you have your street area and you have your water and sewer facilities running here you’ve got your storm drain lines for along the curb you’ve got your gas electric telephone here so you’ve only got a little bit of

Area right in here to do stormwater management and so you also have to look at your streets how are you going to design your streets so that you can try and utilize what green you are able to achieve the normal Street and most subdivisions is a crown Street water

Drains to each side if it drains into the middle it’s hard to if something clubs it’s very difficult to have people drive through and it just becomes a very difficult maintenance issue double Crown Street you have water draining to each side of a Boulevard a reverse crown this

Is where you actually do drained it into the center the word done years ago they’re not done too often now however if you have an island in there that may be an approach to go you can also drain everything to one side so that you have if you have a much

More dense pedestrian usage on one side you use the other side to put in some of your green infrastructure and then of course you can have a very flat street and then you’re looking at more forest pavement or something along that line this was another sort of a view of what

You had seen before and to try and get into the street tree system I talked about you’re looking at putting in little devices to take water over to here there you might combine this so it is also active and maybe plant some shrubbery and you’ll see some

Examples in a few minutes the whole idea is to integrate this into one large system or a larger system so she can pick up rain or runoff from the from the roof or from that plumbing road and this is another example this is an old very

Wide sidewalk here with a idea of well let’s put our streak tree system along here we’ll bring the water in along this way and all of a sudden you have a much nicer Boulevard to walk on and it looks much more inviting for people to come

And visit a couple of examples of how you might drain water off of a street this is more of an a suburban type solution this was done recently in the town of Edmonston in Maryland and they put in sidewalks LED lights lights at shy elves entity then the optics are set

Up so they shine down don’t shine up and then they have bio retention established right in here this may not be practical in areas because it’s going to be a maintenance issue turf can work but in some areas this would work very nicely and it gives you a different character

Along the street here’s one where you have some pedestrian use not a lot this gets a little bit more problematic if you have a lot of pedestrian use because it’s it’s very it’s a relatively narrow sidewalk you also have a problem off along the street and that so on if it’s

There’s parking along there you cannot get out so you have to think about that here’s an example where people are able to get out along the curb and then even have walkways leading back this is a much more urban type of environment and very attractive and here’s another

Example in a urban type environment you do have a little bit of opening along the street so you’re able to get out you can see the protection along the curb there you have to think about the pedestrian usage to make sure that someone doesn’t just fall into it this is probably a footer

And a half beat so you don’t want people just falling into it and get hurt this is a more urban solution it’s a little sick house cul-de-sac u-shaped Road about 15 feet wide but all the water drains right into the middle so you have this nice green area in the middle to

Help augment the landscaping on on the streets now one of the things I really emphasize and all my talks is maintenance part of what Maryland is going through it’s also something called whiff which is the watershed and Improvement Program and they’re requiring all the jurisdictions in the

State and actually it’s a part of the EPA requirement that they’re requiring all those jurisdictions in the state to make a lot of improvements into their wastewater septics agriculture and urban in my County which is about 900,000 Prince George’s County and the adjacent County which is Montgomery County which

Is has about the same population they’re going to be spending approximately two billion dollars each in the next 10 to 12 years to try and meet these goals and so that goes to my first point lack of maintenance means it’s investment by the county agencies or developer if you have

A new subdivision as part of the development is being wasted it means that the stream cleanup goals will not be met it also means lack of maintenance could include filling them of the device by the owner you know someone in a subdivision doesn’t like his rain garden

He’ll fill it in well that’s affecting the stream bankruptcy diversion around a device a device failure or just plain neglect so this is a slide I showed earlier and this was in 2008 this is this 242 unit condominium project and this was what it looked like when it was

First planted and ready to start receiving water it then proceeded to go into bankruptcy so they had just a few people living in there and of course when you’re in bankruptcy you don’t have a whole lot of money so it has slowly gone downhill as you can see this was taken about six

Months ago it’s basically a clover field looks very ugly and if this is now been converted to rental but I know that if I was living up here in these units because it’s four-story and looking down on this I wouldn’t be very happy the good news is it is performing its

Function is not ponding water because there is an under drain in there with a lot of gravel but it still is a very ugly looking little area that we don’t want to see happening and with that I will turn this back over two days thanks Mike thank you

One of the things I think if it wasn’t apparent is we were looking at some really great examples from California in the examples that Mike brought up and I don’t quote me on the number but I think California’s rainfall is about 40 percent that of here on the East Coast

So they’re able because of just the quantity of water they’re treating to integrate better into the urban environment these features so and they’re absolutely beautiful but that’s the challenge we’re having we have we have a substantially larger quantity of water so getting back on to the ideas

And thoughts that we had as to how does how to solve some the problems that we that we’ve identified we did this presentation yesterday and we basically indicated that we have really more questions than answers but we have identified problems that we want to work towards solutions and I want to start

With scale and organization and really the whole concept of Smart Growth being the best management practice for storm and stream quality if we were able to develop our places in the logic of place types with cities towns villages and hamlets located along logical corridors and integrate that

With a network of green systems we would go a long way in substantially reducing our stormwater impacts and the reason for that is we’re building vertically I mean there’s a lot of reasons to to build this way but from a stormwater standpoint the denser we go the more

Vertical we go and we’re able to capture more quality per capita than you could if you spread things out and so very quickly I read seeing you and others have really identified a great organizational process of looking at the region first the neighbor the neighborhood in pattern second and then

The the place the specific place and block third and the ideal arrangement of pieces is to create these places is a small downtown this is about a mile square just to give you a sense of scale for individual neighborhoods surrounding that downtown all within a 10-minute walk of potential transit site and there

May even be a little bit of Fringe development larger lot development along the edge that may not be dependent on transit but this particular system can set up a one-to-one jobs to housing ratio and handle it at seven dwelling units to the acre four to five thousand residential homes this is a plan

Prepared by Doug far-far associates where he’s taken the first step or of and Doug was the chair of the leed-nd committee that developed leed-nd system through US Green Building Council and he’s taken that neighborhood concept and he’s integrated a lot of green systems into that neighborhood he got green boulevards integrated parks

With stormwater you’ve got the habitat corridors you’ve got dual access you know recreational corridors all contributing to the water quality benefits of that of this kind of new sustainable neighborhood but what you don’t see here is that very small drainage area ESD facility so this doesn’t necessarily meet the criteria

That we’ve we have here in this area so one of the things to look at is the town as a series of systems just like a car has a series of system has a brake system in the fuel system well the town has series of systems as well all

Needing to work together in some sort of seamless pattern we’re focused today in this conversation on water and more specifically on storm cleansing but that really relates to a lot of other factors and we’ll go into that one of the things that we do here is we look at it as a

Complete town planning methodology so we drill down to its integrated ESD practice as a part of the filtration system for example and we may look at native grasses as an example on this particular slide and here’s a picture of that now in one of the things I want to

Raise as an issue and it’s not something that’s unknown to folks but it’s something that we have a challenge here is our design manual the approved practices here in the state basically look like this they’re very suburban very natural they follow you know they need a lot of room basically and yet we

Want them to be more integrated into the and again we’re talking about smart growth or higher density size we want to be integrated into that into the fabric of that place more like this example again from California so one of the challenges are one of the issues that

We’ve raised and we want to talk more about is the whole concept of space efficiency of these facilities Mike touched on it with dry wells as one of the approved practices dry wells dry wells are not only inexpensive they are the most one of the most space

Efficient of the practices the in here in Maryland the available options we have which we’ll go through a little bit are very limited and some of them are very costly so we’re going to go through the cost analysis and the treatment and what I’d like to talk refer to as the

Treatment efficiency of each one of these how efficient are they in treating of a certain volume of water a metric of water and how does that compare to the other facilities and how does that compare to the cost of those facilities and then finally bringing that cost into

Into the context now these are going to be very visible so there’s going to be everywhere over time and so the question of visual quality is is something that I want to raise as well here’s that slide that Mike showed you earlier these are the approved practices here in Maryland

For alternative surfaces here’s the cost of those facilities the uppermost now I don’t have a good number for reinforced turf and I apologize for that but starting with the green roofs there’s a recent study been done both by the home builders of Maryland and the University of Maryland systems two different

Studies actually and these numbers are from those two studies and it and it looks at the the initial cost that the first number is the initial cost for treating an impervious acre and that’s 100 for the for the green roof that starts at about a hundred and forty six

Thousand dollars to treat that the the middle number one hundred sixty four thousand dollars actually starts to include some of the maintenance over a 20-year period of time and then ties that back into the overall cost so it’s it’s a marginal increase as a result of

The maintenance cost but there is a cost maintenance beyond just the initial construction the lower number 110 to $220 per cubic foot that indicates how much it costs for that installation and that’s initial cost not not maintenance to treat one cubic foot of water and we jump over to

The alternative surfaces you can see the numbers change they’re roughly in the same category for initial construction at the low end that they jumped dramatically and that’s because of the permeable pavers that are very expensive and that distorts the numbers a little bit and then the maintenance costs are

Very very high for this particular practice so for to look at that at that as a solution it has to be used in a very limited capacity as a solution otherwise your maintenance costs are just going to be exorbitant the lower numbers are broken down for each of the paver types permeable pavers

Permeability TAS fault and then sidewalks and you can see you can see that the asphalt and sidewalk systems are the more cost effective of of the of the four options and again this is an earlier slide that shows the particular ESD micro practices that are allowed here in the state and here are

These the costs per cubic foot and you can see that some of the can I say uglier features are the are the least costly and one of the fears that I have as a landscape architect is the potential to have cost be a driving factor in in in the only driving factor

In some of these installations and the appropriateness of grafts wells in an urban context is a problem as well but you can see the dry wells are coming in at a very very inexpensive rate and again they’re there they’re not a land hog and they’re in a great opportunity

The brain harvesting systems as a treatment option not necessarily just for rainwater harvesting for irrigation and that’s we’re just looking at it as a treatment option is relatively high compared to the others what’s interesting this is a poor-quality and I apologize but this is an interesting graph that takes those

Practices and applies them on the left-hand column as an initial construction cost cost of construction for per cubic foot of water treated starting at the bottom of five dollars up to about 250 dollars and then along the bottom axis we have our drainage areas and starting at 1,000 square feet

۲,۰۰۰ up to an acre in size and you can see that certain practices are limited by the egg the drainage area that they’re allowed to you pedia use for other practices like dry swales wet swales submerged gravel wetlands can actually treat much larger areas so when

You when you start to look at this you can see that the dry swales the Swale systems are the most cost effective not necessarily the best from a land usage standpoint and also you can see that rain barrels and rain harvesting they’re you know basically treat a very small

Area and have a higher relative cost in the urban context we may not have any alternatives but to do green roofs that because of the nature of the site the nature and character of trying to get more density we’re trying to do in this area some sites that are FA are 3.0 to

۴٫۰ and higher and then integrating these systems of green roofs in that context um make it a much more viable solution because you’re adding it onto a more expensive building system versus trying to apply it to say a single-story warehouse building which not would not be cost-effective this is the summary

Printout from and this again a draft report this is from the University of Maryland and it takes it this is one of the first studies that starts to take into account pre-construction cost and planning dollars associated with it and the cubed of dollars that start to be

Applied to you know the maintenance of the project starts look at an annualized are 20 year annualized cost for each of these facilities and again as we showed on the previous slide from the home builders the green roofs are the high-end and the permeable pavers the alternative surfaces basically are at

The higher end and then the grass whales and more suburban solutions are at the lower end of the cost field so one of the one of the problems ami yes if I may point out though that is part of the whip requirement and that’s only treating the one-inch rainfall for those

Things obvious areas thanks mark one of the problems that we have here in in promoting smart growth and in integrating it with ESD is the misconception that a denser place provides a greater level of runoff and pollution and that’s generally true if you’re looking at places on an acre by

Acre basis and this particular drawing from Potomac Conservancy basically shows that and it’s true you have less infiltration in the more urban areas you have lower levels of evaporation and you have higher levels of the surface runoff but when you look at that on a per capita basis the numbers come way down

And here’s an example from the EPA this is I believe generated through the Congress of New Urbanism and to make a long story short this is a quick study to show if you spread 80,000 homes over that one acre in one acre lots where one

House per acre I should say you can see at the bottom it generates 1.5 billion cubic feet of stormwater runoff that has to be controlled at the other end of the scenario scenario C you can see that that same number of homes if stacked vertically in one watershed

Only generates 400 million cubic feet a year so you can see there clearly just the concept of Smart Growth it does a tremendous it is a tremendous advantage to protecting our streams and the quality of our streams the problem that we’re having here in Maryland is unless you’re defined as

Redevelopment which has still got some pretty significant requirements the home that’s out here in the hinterlands has the same treatment requirement as that same 1 acre or home here in this scenario see so they’re being treated the same there’s a disadvantage built into the law unfortunately so one of the

Comments that we have one of the suggestions is to start to look at this more on a regional basis to start to look at the entire watershed and have different application scenarios or calibrations within the watershed for stormwater control and it’s more and again we’re referring to the Maryland

Law where we have this flat requirement across the watershed and then if your redevelopment 40% of your existing ground is already an impervious cover and then you have an advantage the second point that I’d like to make associated with this watershed analysis is currently our law has a and it’s and

It makes sense but it has a a over requirement for impervious cover the the way the law is done the way the numbers are calculated the way projects are going to get approved really is the essence um comes down to how much impervious cover you have and obviously

In an in a or more urban environment going to have a higher level of impervious cover and if the existing ground is green or 39% or less in in pavement then you’re going to have a much higher standard to me than then may be appropriate and it may be more

Appropriate to have a heart you know if you’re looking at smart growth you may want to have a higher requirement for folks that are actually out building 1 and 2 acre subdivisions a maybe they should be paying a higher percentage going back not only to the cost of

Service for those areas but also the amount of turf that’s being generated and the nutrient loading associated with that turf but this is an example this is really quickly 5.6 acre site we have three acres of impervious weir a hydrologic soil type C and the numbers

That you know if you go through the calculations within the Maryland law we’re going to have a target rainfall of 1 point 8 inches we’re going to have a total ESD requirement the 2.7 inch rainfall that Mike had mentioned of about nineteen thousand cubic feet the

Water quality the one inch is about ten thousand eight hundred fifty and then we have a recharge number and we have a phosphorus reduction number as well that comes out of those calculations when I take that same land area and I take the same number of home the same density but

I rearrange it to reduce my impervious cover I’ve now gone from three acres to 2.3 acres and I’ve done that by using a call to set my numbers cut my stormwater responsibilities under the law come down so there’s an inherent disadvantage to doing walkable in integrated connected street systems and alley loaded homes

Because of the added imperviousness so our suggestion in in these cut in the in our conversations at the state level is that there should be some sort of calibration to allow smarter types of communities to be to be provided and not be disadvantaged just simply because there’s a little bit more impervious at

That particular smart growth site so again looking at a watershed basis and quickly this is the menu of ESD facilities or practices and would be required on that one called a sac and it’s actually 43 of them to meet our ESD to the MEP that might be talked about

Earlier and then it’s and then the same going back to our original proposal with 30% 30% more impervious we’re providing some very expensive ESD practices again remembering that the permeable pavements which are the red lines in this diagram are are being provided in the alley and in the parking

Systems along the public streets which is a whole nother controversy but even with that we don’t need our ESD so we don’t meet ESD to the MEP with even showing 67 more expensive practices so there’s going to be a natural tendency of developers and builders not to do

This sort of development if they’re just looking at the cost of infrastructure and the cost of land and how that affects the way they do things so they’re going to tend to build towards a more impervious efficient system which is the call to sack system which may not

Be the best social system so our recommendation number one is to start to look at these solutions on a watershed basis to have variable ESD criteria based upon a project’s location within the watershed Smart Growth sites have a different slightly different requirement but the overall watershed would be

Protected so that within the watershed there be a sliding scale of imperviousness and then actually to build into the law some incentives for density because again going vertical it’s been proven time and time again his move is a benefit to the not only to the watershed but it’s a benefit from a

Transportation standpoint and from cost of services standpoint and no sorts of things so an incentivize density opportunity within the law makes sense measuring things on a per capita rather than a per acre basis our second point that we’ve brought up is that again Mike and I are in the private sector so we

Haven’t really or we’ve been telling our colleagues in the in the public sector you haven’t really seen the onslaught of these new plans because we’ve been in the deepest darkest recession since World War two and this is a graph that shows how dramatically job production is lagged in this recession than it has

Elsewhere as it recovers and when it recovers there will be more redevelopment the other thing that’s happened here in Maryland since 2007 there’s been a grandfathering provision that older projects have have been grandfathered under the old storm water loss and that expose have to be either constructed in

۲۰۱۳ or they expire so right now there really isn’t an onslaught of new of new of new work with all these complications so we’ve been suggesting that folks try and get ahead of the curve and and be proactive have a strategic plan put as many of these new design opportunities

Into their design manual so that you’re not playing defense essentially when the economy recovers and when the in our particular case when the grandfathering stops so that we start to look at things to you know countywide or municipal level start to look at mitigation sites for smart growth projects start to

Define what MEP really means for a Smart Growth project and then start to look at decision making for an design manuals that make sense for these projects our third concept our thought is that right now we have a flat line type of look at the way water is treated throughout the

Watershed and really ah it should be looked at more as a transect and here’s an example of best management practices suggested by the EPA again and this looks at urban suburban and rural and what’s the most appropriate the Congress for New Urbanism and DPZ have generated the rural to urban transect for a

Variety of purposes including stormwater management and it makes sense because it’s really derived from our natural systems as an idea and it really makes sense for everything including stormwater and really it may we want to treat our our areas that are natural and world differently than our suburban

Areas the NMS we start to get into the urban growth boundaries the general urban areas those urban centers that are much more complex and much more land constrained and ultimately our urban cores so really what we need is a transect perspective as it relates to stormwater and we don’t have that

Currently in Maryland I don’t know if it’s been resolved in other places in the country but one of the things again going back to is this misconception that denser places provide more a pollution but it is true on Anchorage but not on a per capita basis so you can see that

Going back to our old site we start to add density and we’ll go through these relatively quickly you can start to see that as we add density in Maryland the problem again goes back to the fact that our existing impervious is zero this is a greenfield site so we have a trim no

Matter how many treatment facilities including green roofs we put in we were challenged with in this urban context to need our ESD requirements so the question again is what is the maximum maximum extent practicable where does that line fall and Mike and I are suggesting that that needs to be defined

More and it may need to be defined differently in the urban context than it is in the suburban or rural context again jumping off again we have a Greenfield with a higher density site it gets even worse and I’m not going to go through the numbers we could if you’d

Like and then when we start to add green roofs that adds a beneficial but we’re still coming up short is tremendous benefit to providing those green roofs and that is going to be as important component as we move forward and the important thing to note here is when I

Change to 13 if I go from a pure green field to a 39 percent impervious which is the only real change my numbers really haven’t changed that much because I’m treated the same as if I was a green field but when I even though it’s 80% more impervious than then some of these

Previous studies but when I go to 40 percent Rio impervious on the existing ground what’s referred to as redevelopment kicks in and now I only have to control 50% of the site it makes sense that’s the way it’s written into the law but that is a

Harsh break between those two so and I can tell you I’m working on projects where the impervious surface in planned major plan growth sites is under this 40% requirement so our suggestion as we look at this is that we really start to think about a transect for stormwater

Management more specifically how its how its treated so we want to calibrate this system to really strengthen smart growth goals and objectives and we currently our recommendation our suggestions to the current law doesn’t do that it’s too harsh a treatment and actually you know if you have a high impervious surface

Existing site great and it does recognize that but maybe there should be some calibration between say maybe 20% and 40% as action item 2 recommends we really think that rather than just leaving it up to the resolution within the development review process there needs to be more definition what MEP

Means in the smart growth sites and then that calibration will hopefully help again going back to our approved design standards and these urban locations are really not appropriate so we need to look at more integrated urban type of solutions unfortunately I found out yesterday that this sort of process has

To go through in a bureaucratic will review an approval process before it’s even an approved practice so I even more strongly recommend that these sorts of practices be developed now while we’re in the economic recession so they’re available to developers when things start kicking in here again is our California example so fourth

Recommendation or suggestion is to start to look at a performance-based design manual perhaps and this may be too much but really couldn’t get away from these legalistic typical sections and perhaps we’re hoping that at least as a suggestion we start to think about performance base making sure we meet those nutrient reduction requirements

That may not necessarily be in the typical sections that are pre-approved by the EPA and the state level folks fifth recommendation start to in the private sector you no longer design from planner to engineer as mike has talked about the linear process it really is a team

Approach and it should be that way on all projects not necessarily is but it has to hold true also in the in the public sector the review process really has to be a team approach and it has to be integrated it can’t be you know that’s dPW’s issue or that’s planning’s

Issue it really has to be a team approach because these things are so integrated into the context of the built environment now there’s no way to not do it this way and so I’m not suggesting you hire a bunch of interns with which this picture suggests but really get

Around the table and start looking at that really start to get folks swimming in the same direction so our suggestion is if you haven’t done it in some places haven’t done it somehow but there start to reorganizing reorganize the stormwater review system into an integrated team approach firstly versus

A departmental approach and include planners landscape architects soil engineers and other stormwater engineers all that’s on that review team one of my big concerns again as a designer is the issue of of visual cluttering and pollution and we have mandated and we have allowed this to occur throughout

Our country and I have very concerned that the next visual clutter could be our ESD requirements if we don’t really think about what these things look like and how they perform in the maintenance that might get suggested so we want to integrate them into us into a comprehensive Greenstreet system into

The urban context and ultimately these systems have to be visually appealing and they have to be maintained properly so our sixth recommendation is and we using the word mandate but the idea he is that beauty counts the art of stormwater design is important and it should be seamlessly integrated into

Into the process finally Mike had mentioned that we’re going to be using a lot more land so the more land we use for a single type of use stormwater control takes away from the other uses available on that site so we want to start thinking about stacking uses

Multi-use overlapping and those sorts of things and this is the example that Mike showed where the actual stormwater system for this new road is actually greater and land usage than the road itself so that may be the way it has to be and that’s the way our laws are written here

In Maryland may not be the most appropriate way to deal with these things so just like we did in in in the in that rural context let’s start to think in the urban context here’s a another Maryland example start to think about those green ESD corridors prior to redevelopment start to redevelopment

Project integrate those systems into that redevelopment corridor and when you’re done they are seamlessly integrated whether they’re dry wells the tree the tree pits the continuous tree wells the permeable pavers all those practices that are available to us and again we might could mention that the limited space we have to work with

Sorry it’s most likely that our our urban standards or urban street right-of-ways are going to grow as a result of this so our next recommendation again is to look at overlaps to look at and stop competing between different areas within the government allow overlaps between stormwater forestry utilities parking landscaping pedestrian recreation really

Start to integrate these things because the cost of land is so expensive to end recommendation number eight really to integrate these we’re suggesting here in Maryland we’re starting to talk about the concept of stormwater clubs the trading of nutrient loading between private entities not between you know we

Already have it for government entities they can trade between agriculture and storms urban stormwater and those sorts of things at the municipal level but start to talk about it private to private across may be jurisdictional boundaries which is going to get very complex but that’s a suggestion because really in reality

Water travels from one property owner to the other and vice versa so our final recommendation has comes down to maintenance or monitoring in this particular case we have water that comes from private property to private property to public property and eventually into a bio retention facility

And again you can see public water you may even have some public water in some cases going over private land but the point is who who’s really responsible for this particular micro bioretention site and this is only handling four thousand square feet of drainage area and is and these are occurring all and

Up and down the street and there’s other multiple practices occurring throughout this particular neighborhood so you really I would like to end on this on the idea of having the ability to cross those jurisdictional boundaries and allow some sort of logical maintenance and monitoring system here’s a gentleman

Out there maintaining his rice patties with a little handheld sprayer really what we need in some sort of basic self reporting and auditing system that’s simple and there’s a lot of talk about this throughout Maryland right now and the Center for watershed protection and other Chesapeake Network has done a lot

Of really good work in this area but elsewhere this could be a tremendous nightmare and in the failure rates are really not being included in this in the system so finally I like to end our great places our integrated flexible beautiful and performance base their logical and their complex and our

Stormwater system should be a part of that system and that’s how I’m going to end there and I’m just going to go through a few of the references that we have in the PDF very quickly um they’re available to everyone who downloads the PDF and they include National Maryland

And third-party sources and that’s our contact information and thank you very much I’m going to turn it over to Brittany at this point all right thanks Dave um so we have a couple questions that have come in and I’m just going to switch it back over to

You so we can leave up your contact information if anybody wants to jot down the email addresses they can you can send Dave and Mike some emails with your follow up questions but our first question comes in from Bradley so it sounds like Maryland’s approach is a top-down one-size-fits-all is there

Local flexibility for instance to adopt stricter regulations or to limit certain types of solutions that are locally not deemed best practices Mike do you want to take that or do you want me to generally it is a top-down approach and it’s only because the state legislation had to write in some specific criteria

And it’s because it’s we’re within you know substantially a substantial portion of the state maybe all the state is within the Chesapeake Bay TMDL and we have court cases and we have a long history associated with that and we have to you know we have mandated responsibilities and and you know legal

Ramifications if we don’t meet our obligations so it is a top-down approach and know the answer to the second question is yes you can have a stricter standard at the local level but you can’t have a more flexible standard and that’s kind of what Mike and I have been

Suggesting and so that’s that’s the challenge if that local jurisdiction could meet their obligations within the boundaries of municipality and maybe have one hotspot of of helpful but they compensate for elsewhere within the jurisdiction because they have other opportunities or other reasons or objectives is something that we’re

Suggesting but the answer your question it is top-down all right great our next question comes in from Lenore and in my experience the city rights away areas between the curb and sidewalk are generally reserved for utility easements with the establishment of water quality infrastructure in these areas how do the municipalities

Incorporate electric cable and other infrastructure lines and while you do have a flip back to the slide okay in many counties in Maryland our public utility easements which is for electric telephone and gas are located outside the public right-of-way so we have about a 10-foot even outside the public

Right-of-way where we put those utilities water and sewer tend to be in the public right-of-way and the local public work departments do not like to see gas electric telephone in there right away except for crossings if you have them running in the green area that makes it a lot more difficult

To try and implement some of those solutions those solutions may then need to be forced to the outside further you might also want to consider having those utilities run underneath the sidewalk for example or put them in the street conduits so that you don’t have to rip

Up for the yard or tear up an area in order to access it because it’s in conduit so you can pull line or at least you can minimize where some impact might occur okay great I’m sorry next question comes in from Ellen what kind of insight or ideas can the speakers offer about

Ways to include measures in the Municipal Code that addresses maintenance and retrofitting these BMPs especially for a small or rural town Mike well what marilyn is required in their law is that they you are required to report every three years first from a owner of the facility to the local

Jurisdiction and then the local jurisdiction to the state which the status of your facility is is it working or not they haven’t had a whole lot of experience with the very small facilities yet because there haven’t been that many built although there are some the larger facilities which use your larger stormwater management

Embankments they are supposed to be reported to the local jurisdiction that’s very hidden this locally I you know other than requiring it I know that the there’s one city in the area but because they know what is out there they send the letter to the owner every year saying where’s your maintenance

Certified by an engineer that everything is okay and operating that’s one possible solution right there is send out letters to everyone who has the device and have them report back that works for a commercial type development I’m not quite sure how one is going to deal with the local residents

I don’t have much to offer at this time Dave any ideas well well we made this presentation to the Maryland planning commissioners Association yesterday and we basically posed the question to them is how in the world are you going to monitor essentially you know 2010 2 24

More more and and how in the world are you going to deal with you know like Mike was saying 900,000 residents in one County it’s going to be a challenge and I don’t know that anybody does have the answer it’s not necessarily because it’s the wrong approach it’s just because

It’s so decentralized that it’s beyond the capacity of some of the local jurisdictions we actually were on a panel with Kathleen Freeman who is from Caroline County which is a rural county in Maryland and just very quickly this is a little off the question but it’s important and it goes to the question

They are they’re spending two hundred seventy-five thousand dollars on five demonstration projects and they’re essentially reducing nitrogen by a hundred pounds they need to reduce nitrogen by a hundred and I think it’s uh fourteen thousand pounds but my voting for about 4045 I think you might 44,000 bylaw

So that’s multi millions of dollars at this world county of some thirty forty thousand people has to deal with it they don’t have an answer they’re just starting to recognize the problem they’re trying to deal with it but they have limited resources and maybe that goes to the kind of question that you

Know when you when you mandate something and legislatively um it’s got to get done and these rural counties and rural jurisdictions are going to be really under the gun because of our limited resources okay great our next question comes in from Michael to the structural requirements for stacking stormwater

Improvements and usable green space make doing so unreasonable are there ways to make stacking feasible well I’ll take that question um it depends on the value of the land that you’re putting it on in again our whole presentation has revolved around Smart Growth or high density urban sites and the value of the

Land usually outweighs the the land usage requirement for the stormwater facilities so in these cases it does make sense depending on the on the practice to double to double counted or double use it if it’s a if you have an urban tree planting requirement to integrate those into the into the tree

Panel that Mike was showing in some of his examples that’s a double counting order you know from the standpoint of responsibilities of the developer but it meets both the street tree planting requirement and the storm water quality requirements so why not include and and there are some approved practices for street trees in

By DPA and there are allowed in in this system but in other places in them in the more fringe areas it doesn’t make sense and so you have to kind of weigh the value and cost of the land that is being absorbed by the practice and

Whether it makes sense and and when it doesn’t make sense and that’s the challenge that we’ve had here in some of our more urban sites you need to have the flexibility to go to a more costly but less land consumptive alternative which is well maybe what you’re looking

Or suggesting so those hopefully have answered your question okay our next question comes in from George having a transect approach with variable treatment requirements to promote smart growth sounds rational but it could place a higher per capita treatment burden on more suburban areas will this require a system of compensation similar to emissions

Cap-and-trade for air quality well I think I I think that’s a great question and and the more you delve into this and the more complex you make it the more complex the solutions become and I think you’re absolutely right that’s why we are looking you know we’re talking

About the uh the the private property owner – private property owner trading system so that you’re really not disincentivizing or hurting someone in the suburban areas but you’re incentivizing the the growth areas the places where you want the development to occur and that property owner goes out and finds similar to a transfer

Development right process where you’re protecting farmland and you’re building in the in the in a corporate limit somewhere so so your points very well taken but what it needs to be it to the extent possible is a private to private transaction so that’s not mandated through legislation because that will

Get very complex and that’s what our suggestion about the stormwater clouds is all about similar to transportation clubs and transfer develoment right private private transactions okay I think we’re gonna have to end our session here and if we haven’t gotten to your question or if you still have any

Questions that you would like to follow up on you can contact Dave and Mike their email addresses are up on the screen so take take a moment to jot those down I’d like to thank Dave and Mike very much for the presentation I think it was a really great session

Everybody enjoyed it and and for our attendees who are still in attendance if you just want to hold on I’m going to go through a few reminders I’m just about logging your cm credits in just a moment thank you very much Brittany I really enjoyed it

Alright so for those of you who are still in attendance I’m going to go through a few reminders first off to log your cm credits for attending today’s webcast please go to WWE on org slash cm select today’s date Friday November 11th and then select today’s webcast environmental site design vs. smart

Growth this webcast is available for one and a half CM credits also we are recording today’s session so you will be able to find a recording of this webcast along with a six slide per page PDF @ww Utah APA org slash webcast archive and this does conclude today’s session I

Want to thank everyone again for attending

ID: bNfBsYHqd48
Time: 1343345770
Date: 2012-07-27 04:06:10
Duration: 01:29:39

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