Title: شهرهای هوشمند، داده های فدرال و نوآوری مدنی | انجمن دانیل برنهام در مورد ایده های بزرگ

سخنران اصلی جان تامپسون، مدیر سابق اداره سرشماری ایالات متحده، خطرات امروزی برای داده های فدرال را مورد بحث قرار می دهد، بررسی می کند که چگونه تصمیمات قانونگذار بر منابع داده فدرال تأثیر می گذارد، و بررسی می کند که آیا سرشماری ۲۰۲۰ در خطر است یا خیر. سخنرانی اصلی با یک میزگرد با جان تامپسون، نادر افضلان، مری جو هوکسما، و توسط سینتیا بوون، رئیس APA، AICP هدایت می شود. مجموعه انجمن برنامه ریزی آمریکا برنهام به بررسی روندها، چالش ها و فرصت هایی می پردازد که جوامع آمریکا را در نیم قرن آینده شکل خواهند داد. برای کسب اطلاعات بیشتر در مورد سریال و تماشای بحث های قبلی، به آدرس زیر مراجعه کنید:
https://www.planning.org/burnham/

در مورد داده های فدرال در برنامه ریزی بیشتر بیاموزید:
https://www.planning.org/

قسمتي از متن فيلم: Okay good afternoon everyone good afternoon thank you well I want to welcome you all here to the 2017 Daniel Burnham Forum on big ideas for those of you who don’t know me I’m Cynthia Bowen I am the president of the American Planning Association this event was

Established in 2012 as a way to bring attention to critical issues affecting communities and what we in our profession can be doing to address those issues the forum aims to speak at important ideas of today while casting an eye toward how those ideas might inform our work and the places that we

Serve by making it the kickoff to our policy and advocacy conference we put the forum at the intersection of public policy and planning concerns we’ve had a range of speakers in topics over the last five years from professors to mayor’s and I have no doubt that tonight’s program is going to again be

Informative and provocative tonight we’re focusing on data we will look at political challenges to our federal data and our Statistical agencies we will discuss how the data is changing the way cities are managed and how policies are developed we will consider how we can promote innovation in planning that

Matches innovation in technology and we will look at how these tools can foster better public engagement in the process this forum is being held in the context of period in a in a period of political uncertainty the federal budget threats to essential resources like the census are all too

Real for us and the tenor of public debate that devalues evidence-based policymaking is a serious challenge recognizing this context APA has made the protection of data one of our three federal policy priorities along with infrastructure and equitable inclusive communities we’ve elevated data because it’s so important to the good work that

We do as planners and to our communities we also want to spur the advocacy of members to stand up for our values and our vision for the future you know we have seen some impressive results as planners are taking up this call to action one example of that is that we’ve

More than doubled the network of grassroots advocates since the beginning of this year and will bring bringing more planners more than ever to our planners day on the hill on this Tuesday I was there and now you can’t hear me at all if you haven’t already joined the

Planners advocacy network this will be the only time I’m encouraging you to take out your phone right now and go and join you know there really are important advocacy issues related to data and it there under debate right now from funding levels to how we measure risk

And resiliency your voice to this effort is incredibly important and we really need you to be speaking up good data and new data tools are at the center of so many of the important work that we as planners do and necessary for our local leaders to govern whether using

NOAA’s digital coast to plan for resiliency and Hazard Mitigation or the American Community Survey information to understand local trends and housing poverty and inequality sound science and good statistics are essential ingredients to effective and inclusive planning our work is not just to defend the current system but to advocate for

Better tools that really help us create better and smarter cities to walk us through tonight’s landscape and tomorrow’s outlook let me introduce this year’s Daniel Burnham Forum speaker John Thompson John was nominated by President Obama and confirmed by the US by the US Senate as the 24th Census Bureau

Director in 2013 he has served in that post until June of this year when he left to become the executive director of the Council of professional associations on federal statistics in his new post he is leading advocacy and technical efforts to ensure a successful 2020 census and advance federal data programs

While at the Census Bureau he was instrumental in setting the stage for 2020 census as well as working across the federal government on advancing the use of federal data in innovative new applications and programs so John is going to come up and make some remarks and then we’re going to invite a couple

Of other panelists up and we’re going to engage in a dialogue and discussion with you so with that John [Applause] alright that’d be good Trevor thank you well I am I’m delighted to be here talking to bed data it’s refreshing to see data at the top of a priority list

No I it really is I mean just just so you know I I go back a long ways at the Census Bureau I started my career at the Census Bureau in 1975 and I stayed there through 2002 the last job I had as a career person at the Census Bureau was

As the career executive in charge of the 2000 census which was an exciting time I got to work with a lot of people then and then I went and worked at the University of Chicago’s National Opinion Research Center which again is a research organization that produces data

Federal data mostly federal data but it produces a lot of data and analysis so I’ve just spent my whole career either producing consuming or advocating for for federal data and I’m glad to keep doing it so what is Coe paths or the Council of professional associations on

Federal statistics let me just talk a little bit about this it was founded in 1981 at the time there was great concern among a number of users of federal statistics that Federal Statistics brantford for a trying and challenging time I just set the stage Ronald Reagan had just become president and it

Campaigned on a program of austerity and the person that I don’t know if any of you know named David Stockman was the director of OMB who also had as an agenda to reduce the federal footprint in a lot of areas and and there was great concern so copias was formed by

These associations and the first executive director was woman named Kathy Wallman if that name sounds familiar Kathy Wallman later the chief statistician of the United States and was in that position for quite a while having retired this past January so it’s it’s great to be I’m following in her footsteps so if you

Look on our website you’ll see that our membership produces and consumes just a wide array of federal statistics almost in most departments and because it’s a very broad membership and in most scientific disciplines and our goal is to advance is advancing excellence in federal statistics so let me talk a

Little bit about federal statistics and I have a method here because I want to show you some of the challenges and then later on we can talk about some things that might help them so the Federal Statistical system is coordinated by the office of the chief statistician of the

United States and this is actually in statute because in the paperwork reduction Act provision of 1994 it set up the chief statistician in the United States who is now a woman named Nancy Potok to coordinate the activities of the Federal Statistical system and chair what’s called the interagency Council on

Statistical policy which represents the 13 primaries that Federal Statistical agencies and here are the primary Federal Statistical agencies now the one thing I want you to keep in mind here and I’m going to show you a few slides that shows a lot of data that these

Agencies produce but one of them one of the challenges that is that there are statutes and laws in place that prohibit the agencies from sharing data and this introduces a great I’m serious it I was I was I was at the Census Bureau Census Bureau actually has an in statute

That that we will use administrative records other federal data to the greatest extent possible to accomplish our mission so the Census Bureau has great authority to ask for data from any agencies and of course I’ve found throughout the years that the other agencies have great authority to say no

You can’t have the data but census does have they do have agreements with with many of these agencies to use data for specific purposes in particular the IRS because tax data can be very informative for a number of purposes but there are real limitations to making real advantage of this data and in

Introducing significant efficiencies into the federal government so and I’m sure you all use a lot of this data but this is just an example of some of the important data that the Federal Statistical system generates you can start with what’s constitutionally mandated which is the reapportionment of the Congress and then you have

Redistricting principle key economic indicators a number of the agencies produce these and they’re very important to describe the economy when they come out you see the markets move instantly the American Community Survey which was mentioned employment labor force I won’t read all of this but you know it expands

The the breadth the National Center for Health Statistics has incredibly important data on on opioid addiction so that’s really important if you get over into agriculture you’ll notice that there’s a lot of data on food security and farm productivity there’s data there on obesity there’s data on crime victimization and in particular there

There is data on victimization that is not reported to the police so they actually measure that on the national victimization survey which is which is very important there’s a lot of information on energy uses fuel reserves our education process how we’re doing on producing scientists and engineers of

Course veteran status and highways which I’m sure a lot of you use a lot of that information so what are some of the challenges for federal statistics well just in general these challenges have some of these challenges have been developing over time it’s getting harder and harder to collect information using

In person or in business techniques direct contact with a household or business it’s getting more and more challenging response rates are going down costs are going up there are expanding demands for data for much more timely data for a much more granular data much more local area data and I

Know you all are great consumers of this and you’d love to see a lot more data on a much more rapid basis there are just growing concerns about protecting privacy it’s getting harder and harder to produce tabular data in a world where there’s so many alternative data sources

And ways to to take away the privacy protections that are associated with data and by this I mean and I don’t mean NOAA data in that that that’s not private but I mean data from the American Community Survey the Census are some of the other surveys and there are

A lot of concerns that keep growing about federal data collection so one of the challenges I face that census was there was a lot of concerns about the American Community Survey and we had to do a lot of work and get a lot of educate a lot of folks to advocate for

The American Community Survey it was a great concern there are still concerns about federal data collection that we see every day in the papers and finally I’ll come back to this funding constraints so the federal the federal agencies have been really really challenged with funding

Over the years it has been at best flat we had a meeting at copay offs in June I was there as the Census Bureau director then and we were talking about our funding for FY 17 FY 18 and some of the statistical agencies were glad they had

Only gotten a 5% cut because some of the other areas in the domestic program fared a lot worse but still the problem the problem with this is is that we’re at a time where we need to do innovation in federal statistics and the federal agencies just don’t have the resources

To really be as innovative as they can to font to to solve some of their problems I’ll put this graph up just to illustrate what not what I’m saying what this is or the response rates for the current population survey I don’t know if you know what the current population

Survey is it’s the survey the Census Bureau conducts it’s what’s used to produce the musta month change in unemployment that BLS the Bureau of Labor Statistics releases every month and I use this because this is and I can say this because I work in this in the

Survey business for a long time in different in private and public the current population survey is the highest response rate volunteer survey that the United States government produces the collects and you can see here that the response rate sorta go up and down up and down fleet fluctuate a little bit and they

Get a little bump right around 2010 that that that’s the big bump there’s the 2010 census because there was a lot of publicity with the 2010 census there was a 300 million dollar advertising and partnership campaign and it lifted up every every agency even private sector agencies but after that you can see

There’s just a downward trend and that that’s just it in I can assure you it census we tried everything we could to revert that trend but it it just wasn’t happening so that’s that’s that’s the illustration other surveys are the same thing the survey is that the Census Bureau uses to

Produce the monthly retail trade indicators are down in the thirty percentiles and that’s a key economic indicator so that’s it that’s a big challenge so let’s talk about the 2020 census which is one of my favorite topics so so just as a little background the census process from 1970 through

۲۰۱۰ was pretty simple in in nineteen seventy this was actually a groundbreaking event but it’s preparing address list and as part of that you have to assign Geographic codes to the address list with automatically so you know where the housing units are that busy them mail a paper questionnaire

Capture the information from the mail returns and then conduct impersonal enumeration of Nam responders using paper and pencil and that layer and this is this has been the process that’s been used since nineteen seventy various aspects this had been increased in their ability to automate I mean the census

Had a homemade way to capture information from returned paper questionnaires in nineteen seventy they’ve since taken that too you know digital imaging and and character intelligent character recognition but the in-person enumeration of the non-responders using pencil and paper has been why the costs of the census have been going up exponentially over

The years and they’ve been exceeding the increase from inflation and population growth significantly and there’s lots of charts that show this and the reason is is that as the country gets more diverse and communication strategies get more diverse and you’re using paper and pencil the only solution is you have to

Throw more bodies at it and that’s why the costs go up so so fast it’s been a huge requirement to just increase it so the reason I went back to the Census Bureau was in fact I had never planned to go back to the Census Bureau I but

But when I left I couldn’t envision the technological opportunities that that now exists today to change the way you take the census so it was time to go back and help them so they’re there they’re there there are four new things they’re doing in one old thing which I’ll get to which

Is very important so they used to have to walk the whole country to prepare an address list now they don’t have to walk the whole country through to review the list because they can do it in office using a lot of geospatial tools they’re still got to walk about 25 30 percent of

The country but that’s a lot less expensive than walking the whole country and I know this it might be a little hard to believe but the Census Bureau is going to use the internet for the first time as a self-response option in 2020 and [Applause] and they’re by the way they’ll still you

Know if somebody doesn’t if if by 2020 there’s somebody doesn’t have access to the Internet they’ll they’ll let them either respond by paper or call-in but so they’re not they’re not ignoring that they’re going to make some intelligent use the use of administrative records and third-party

Data to reduce the workload and the most important thing they’re not the most important but the greatest cost savings are coming from reengineering the field operations to use mobile technology now they had a problem with this in 2010 the reason was they were trying to build a

Mobile device well now you know we just use these things and the good the good thing is is that they work and since this has been testing using these they work really well so that that’s the big the big challenge I’ll get back to them what’s been happening here though in a

Minute so that the final thing is what’s called integrated communications and partnership and I can’t stress the importance of this enough what this means is that you have advertising but it’s not not just national advertising its advertising that’s really based on communities so you get the right message

Out for the right communities and then partnership is where the Census Bureau hires a number of individuals they go work with local communities local governments they do a number of activities and they do two really important things they get the word out in terms of why the census is important

And why it’s important for that particular local community or group because there’s there’s different needs for different communities it’s not a one message fits all and the other important thing they do is communicate that the the responses to the census are completely safe and completely confidential and just so you all know the

The Census authorities comes from title 13 u.s. code that supersedes even the Patriot Act so the Census Bureau the Census Bureau doesn’t doesn’t give their data to anyone and it by statute they they keep it but you know you can’t that you need to feed somebody that people

Will believe tell them that because that I just can’t do that so what so let me just show you this this is something that that I used to use the Census Bureau and what this represents is the 2010 census undercounts measured at the county level and the 2000 census by the

Way is it isn’t what they call statistically different from 2010 so it looks pretty much the same and then what you see is the 1990 census under count but this is applied to a population that’s been carried forward to 2015 so the population has changed a lot since

۱۹۹۰ but this would assume that that you got the under counts you got in 1990 and you can see some pretty dramatic differences between those two charge and they’re both on the same scale and the big difference between 1990 and 2000 and 2010 was in 2000 the Census Bureau

Started doing paid advertising with the number of targeted advertising companies and they started doing this paid partnership they did that in 2000 they did it in 2010 they didn’t do it in 1990 and so that and that’s really the big difference between those censuses so it really illustrates the effect of the

Importance of that program so what are the challenges to the 2020 census well there’s a lot they’ve to do a lot of automation and the automation if it had been fully funded would have saved significant amounts of money it would have saved over five billion dollars from the cost of repeat

The 2010 census in 2020 however if you look this is right on the Census Bureau’s website but if you look at what the Census Bureau has requested from 2012 when the 2020 census planning started through 2017 there were there were over 200 million dollars below what they’ve been appropriated and let me let

Me explain a couple things about that number that is how much they have not been funded there are estimates by some different organ it one of them the one Mary Jo Huck Seema Oakland right represents that estimate to make that the census may need as much as three

Hundred million dollars in 2018 to catch up and it doesn’t look from my perspective I don’t think they’re going to get three hundred million dollars but they better anyway but they’re underfunded I think everybody all the advocates agrees there that they need more money so what has happened at census so census

Has been forced to prioritize their operations so they can really develop the automation if they can’t do the automation if the automation doesn’t work then they can’t really produce an accurate census so the automation has to work and they’ve been focusing on the automation and the last time I saw the

Census Bureau which was a couple weeks ago at their science scientific advisory committee meeting they were still on track to conduct a complete test of the automation in 2018 it’s called the 2018 end-to-end test which actually has started already with preparing an address list they have a census day

April 1st 2018 and and anyway they’re going to run it end-to-end and have test all the operations however they’ve had to reduce the amount of infield testing that they’ve done so they canceled the test in Puerto Rico they cancelled Teslin submitting reservations and they were going to do the end-to-end test

Fully in three sites and now they’re doing it and Providence Rhode Island they’ve also had to defer a complete modernization of every operation so what this means is they’ve had to increase the in-person address listing and they’ve had to return to some paper-based methods for selected areas or population groups some

Rural areas for example now the thing is from an accuracy standpoint it’s not going to be that bad because they use these methods in 2010 and they work pretty well 2010 was the most accurate census we’ve had it’s just that they’re going to be more expensive but what is a

Pretty big concern to a lot of the stakeholders is that they’ve had to defer their communications and partnership program many activities for that and these are the activities that give you the accuracy I had that chart up there and we what we what no one

Wants to see is a chart like that and it becomes incredibly important to get an accurate census I mean you know you’re talking about proper apportionment proper drawing of districts well at least you have the data to challenge improper drawing of districts but but the data is there the sensitive it’s the

Data out that’s used for redistricting so everybody can use it and but it’s also used for fund allocation professor Andrew reamer just issued a report which estimated that there’s at least six hundred billion dollars on an annual basis that gets allocated based on census data more importantly than that the census is used

For the controls of almost all the demographic data collections in the United States and by controls I mean they use these to weight up the surveys to be fully representative of populations and so if the census contains errors in it then those errors are carried over to the surveys that

Collect federal data the census also is the Bay for the population estimates that come out every year and funds are allocated on those and if the census is short on those that gets carried over the entire decade so a good census is really really really important to everyone that uses

That relies on any kind of federal data for planning or for funding or decision making so increased funding is just going to be critical for an accurate census in 2020 and if it doesn’t come in fiscal year 2018 which were in the process of now and there’s a lot of work

Going on to try to get more money for the census in 2018 but if it doesn’t come there then it’s got to come in 2019 or in a lot of money I mean if you look at some of the census budget documents they were estimating they needed about

Two and a half billion in 2019 they’re in the process of doing a well they’ve probably there’s a new full cycle cost estimate that’s that’s making its way through the government that will be used in the the supporting the 2019 appropriation and that will have a new

Estimate for fiscal year 2019 I’m sure I haven’t seen it but I’m sure it’s going to be a lot bigger than two and a half billion dollars and then the Congress is going to have to fund appropriate the money that they asked for that’s just going to be incredibly important so just

To end to talk about some some some things some opportunities there’s there’s a lot of interest in a number of areas to look at integrated statistical data from surveys administrative records and commercial data now the idea is there if you do this it’ll start producing a lot more accessible data a

Lot more timely data to use the issue is is that there’s there’s got to be a lot of work that goes on to fully make use of integrating datasets so there’s a report that came up by the National Academy of Sciences Bob groves it was a former director of the Census

Bureau and is now the Provost at Georgetown led that effort which describes some of the issues and processes around that the chief statistician United States has a number of initiatives going for here one of them really is said to find is to update the standards that the office management

Budget issues to guide quality surveys and so for example if you produce the key economic indicator that’s based in part on a survey in Portland Ministry of Records and apart maybe on some credit card data transaction data how do you know how good that that that indicator

Is and so this is why they need to do this work to produce the standards and so that that’s a big opportunity another huge opportunity is the Commission on evidence-based policymaking this was this was a bipartisan Commission that was established by by Ryan speaker Ryan and patty Murray of

Washington senator Murray there’s a bipartisan initiative they had 15 commissioners that were bipartisan and they just issued their report and it’s available at WWE P Commission on evidence-based policymaking dot-gov and they make a number of recommendations but in particular they’re there that the heart of it is is

Finding ways to bring together federal data from the different agencies not not that you had that siloed structure to do much more efficient work for government it’s it’s a huge opportunity they’re in the process now of well the Commission actually goes away at the end of September but the

Bipartisan Policy Center has has secured some funding and is going to be continuing the work of the Commission and that the first challenge is going to be getting some legislation passed to start this movie so it’s it’s a really exciting opportunity a couple other things that are going on I’m sure you

All are working on this in terms of using data in good government I I know when I was at at commerce under the previous administration there was just a lot of work going on with public private data partnerships there’s there’s one one example of this and there’s many one

Was the opportunity project and you can see it at opportunity dot census.gov but what this did was it brought together cities it brought together some private companies and it brought together government data a lot of census data a lot of HUD data to build product products that would help communities and

Some of the big data providers got involved in this so Zillow got involved in it Amazon got involved in it there are different different different ways and they built products to help communities perform better so that would that was a great initiative to use city data government data and and and even some

Third-party private data to build some really exciting projects I just have to put in the plug right now the Census Bureau is getting ready to do the local update of census addresses I know that many of you will be working in this I can tell you that the Census Bureau is

Getting really excited about this because the responses they’ve gotten positive responses are at an all-time high they’ve never had as many respond positively so they’re participating in this program this is the program where the sense of fear actually gives local governments their address lists and takes back corrections so it’s a great

Opportunity to get a good address list and then there are just a number of access tools I’ve listed a few here that the Census Bureau has one of them is what they call their City SDK which is a way to to get more easily get information for the Census Bureau’s api’s they have

Something called business builder which puts together American communities survey data and economic data mainly County business patterns too in a way that’s easy to use they started doing this thinking maybe they could help some small businesses utilize their data I know it’s actually pretty easy to use

Because my son was asking me some questions I want one of my son’s about you wanted to think about starting up a business and I said well you know you justjust try it so he did and he was actually able to pull some data down which I found to be amazing because my

Son is this particular son is not computer literate at all and and on the map I would really encourage you to look at on the map it brings together employer employee data and survey data it’ll let you draw any kind of polygons you want and provides you information

For it so it’s also there and I’ve also seen that there’s been a lot of use of local data and some using big data techniques to utilize local data to really do some good things for communities one of them and this is only because I went to Virginia Tech and I

Work with Virginia Tech but I know that that they’re doing a lot of work with with the city of Arlington to utilize things like 9-1-1 calls and emergency calls and analyze these and make sense out of them so they can say you know what what are the what they’re what are

The times where should we anticipate getting calls but it’s just utilizing local data using some big data techniques and some to really make sense out of just massive data for for communities and I’ve seen a lot of that going on so with that I’m done thank you very much [Applause]

Yeah well thank you John that was very very interesting and informative so now our conversation on this important issue and some of the issues that you’ve raised John I’d like to invite a couple more people to join you on the stage so first please welcome Mary Jo hook Seema

She’s the director of government affairs for the population Association of America and the co-chair of the census project and also welcome dr. Nadar off salon from Redlands University who is also the chair of AP A’s technology division so welcome [Applause] thank you all for coming in and talking

About this important topic for APA so why don’t we start off Mary Jo why don’t you tell us a little bit about your organization and as the leader of the census project what can people do what can our planners do to advocate for federal data and for statistics

Thank you very much for having me it’s a pleasure to be here and to have this opportunity to talk to all of you about the census project APA has been very actively involved in our efforts but for those of you don’t know what the census project is it is a broad-based diverse

Network of national state and local organizations some 600-plus actually representing the interests of business civil rights labor housing human services and scientific organizations among its among its ranks and all of us have come together in support of advocating for funding for the decennial census and for maintaining a mandatory

Fully funded American Community Survey we do a number of things through the census project the least of which is to ensure that our members are informed when there are attempts to undermine support for funding the Census and also the ACS so we will put out information about maybe amendments that are going to

Be offered on the House or Senate floor that would affect funding and so then in turn our member organizations can issue Action Alerts if you will so members can be activated to contact specific representatives or senators and urge them to vote the right way on these amendments we also were very involved as

Was APA as a member of the census project in efforts dating back to 2012 to ensure that the American Community Survey did not become a voluntary survey John reflected on this point has come in his remarks there have been efforts in Congress in recent past to try to make

The ACS a voluntary survey and we’re very tuned in to those those attempts that have fortunately fallen a little bit to the wayside but we remain very vigilant okay so being tuned into those Action Alerts when they come about is important I think as members of AP

APA to respond to those but proactively would love to see people get more engaged particularly this critical time in planning for the decennial census I mean it’s not only important to react to Action Alerts but also when people come policymakers from Congress as well as state local government or in your

Community to engage them in town halls and meetings that you may be privy to and to talk not only about the ports of funding the Census Bureau as well as other statistical agencies but to speak about the how you use the data in ways that will mean something to them the

Applied uses of the data how communities benefit from these data I worked for two members of Congress otherwise they won’t always wanted to know how at the end of the day how constituents would benefit from investments in statistical agencies and lastly another thing you can do if you’re interested in being more

Proactive is write op-eds when there again in sort of reacting to Action Alerts when there have been threats to statistical agencies their collection of data and this is something again working with Jason and Trevor and the team here in DC they can give you the guy that’s sort of building upon the information

That groups like the census project are putting out to help you craft and market and op-ed when the timing is right so those are some immediate thoughts I had about ways in kit you can get involved right yeah thank you for that say not err why don’t you talk to us a little

Bit about a piays division as it’s been active on data and smart city issues so really what do you see as priorities for the organization in this area and how are your members using these government data resources in planning issues thank you very much Cynthia I’m thrilled

To be here we have more than 20 divisions in APA and technology division is one of them I’m the chair of the technology division and co-chair of the smart cities and sustainability taskforce our cities our data obese right now so it’s real a lot of our cities I think

Our video piece or they are getting there so when you have a piece of the issue what would you do you you go and see a doctor and you change your habits you can change your I don’t know diet the most important thing is to change

Your lifestyle this is what a lot of people would advise you to do so I think a lot of cities and organizations need to change their their their style and collecting gathering using analyzing data and interpreting that and turning that into action so this is what we

Basically do in a technology division to help planning organizations and also industries who are using different types of data for public little public action or community based planning to think about how they can use governmental data of federal data and how they can integrate that at local data sets so

Talking about local data sets it there’s a history about that we’ve been talking about that for a while I’ve been talking about using social media data and citizen generated data for more than ten years from now but I think we’re not still there and in fact a lot of our

Organizations are I think are not that focused in a lot of cases I see organizations are not focused on the goals they are more focused on oh we have all this data what are we going to do with that so I think I think the

First step is to think about it still to focus on the goal itself other than the data so instead of looking at a technology or data and see what are we gonna do with this instead of that it would be still going back and stepping

Back and see okay so this is our goal instead of being distracted by a lot of amazing things you can do with that data thinking about okay what’s our goal we’re gonna stick with that and how we are going to deal with this so I think

That’s that’s one way to deal with that data so sticking with goal I think would be would be important having clear objectives thinking about partnerships and collaborations a lot of planning organizations are are still not ready to think about how to use that data a lot

Of planning soon as a faculty I deal with a lot of planners and planning students I think we’re not still teaching students in a way that they are really ready to deal with this data analysis and interpreting big data in a lot of cases so we’re getting there what

We’re a little bit slow on that so providing opportunities for planners to have those kinds of partnerships and collaboration with other organizations instead of thinking about how they can use this data and how they can how they can partner with other organizations to help with that process is important as

Well there are ideas about thinking about bottom-up and top-down approaches planners love bottom-up approaches but I think in this case I’m sorry I should say that we definitely need top-down approaches as well so thinking about the use of federal data as well as local data and thinking about how these two

Kenny marriage is extremely important I as part of my role as the chair of the technology division I some time in Iraq with very small towns I can feel that some of those towns and organizations have are a little bit scared of touching these kinds of things but I think this

Is not an issue for small towns with limited staff it’s an issue what a lot of is I work with the city of LA as well and I can see that they are struggling with this issue as well so I think it would be good to to tackle experiment

Ida rates think about your experiment and go back and we do it so this is what a technology division does in terms of trying to provide opportunities for professional development for planners and also different professionals okay thank you very much let me follow up John with one of the points that you

Had talked about about our data being completely or the Census Bureau looking for the data to be completely safe and secure and the fact that they are moving towards an internet internet basis to collect that data how do you calm the fears of the public especially with the

Recent Equifax data hack and the thoughts out there about hacking into our election process what are the things that you know one of the things that we could do as planners to encourage our citizens and our residents because this data is so critical and one of the

Things may be that the government could be doing or other partner partners in this process to help ensure that that’s secure and Nader not or you might have some thoughts on this away as well from the technology side so on the positive side census really does a really good

Job of keeping the data safe and there’s all different levels they have they they have to have they have a very good strategy they work with with the department homeland security experts there they happen to be really close to the National Institute of science of standards so that that’s all really good

But this is again why the communications is so important because part of the communications program will be explaining to people in terms they can understand why the data is safe and why the Census Bureau is confident that it can protect the information that they have but that’s but and again that that

That’s just another message that has to get out so when census gets funded up to start doing this I’m sure they’d be happy to give you all kinds of information you know to get that out but but again this is this is why it’s becoming critical that the census get the proper

Funding to move forward okay not room so okay well I would like to tie it to not only privacy but also issues of ethics in general I think we need we need more focus on ethical concerns of using data how it is used and how it is not you

So any code of ethics I’m going back and and I have I’m a planner so I’m going to talk about it code of ethics for a sec so in the code of ethics we only have I think two paragraphs just talking about ethical concerns of using data from

Social media and all that we’ve had one or two webinars on that topic which is I think they are very valuable but it’s not enough so I would love to see we at APA focusing on on this topic and even thinking about modifying the code of ethics to include those ideas and and

Those solutions I’m working with Lisa Schweitzer from USC Universal in California on some of these topics and I’d be happy to talk more about that but I think we as planners should be probably more cautious about how we’re using data where where we can use it and

Where we can not use it and there is a huge confusion from our side as planners about about ethical use of data okay good good thought Mary Jo did you have anything you wanted to add or well really although I think the Commission on evidence-based policymaking and the recommendations they’ve issued it’s an

Important opportunity maybe to capitalize on the the very idea that never has suggested that APA embraced this opportunity to consider you know adopting some recommendations some guidelines if you will for use of data and that to the recommendations that I think are really going to catch fire and it’d

Be important for all of you to be a part of this this effort moving forward to not only enhance access to data but to do so responsibly and to be a part to be leaders in that effort okay thank you so let me ask you this question and this

Could be any one of our panelists can start first with this so we often quote this around here around APA so Daniel Patrick Moynihan is credited with saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts and so do you worry about how fake news the

Skepticism of science and the narrow channels of information that’s getting out to the public is hurting government and public debate on policy and so what are the things that can be done about that [Laughter] it’s a it’s a huge concern there’s There’s a there’s some concerns about sort of fake news being used to really in a very targeted way to try to discourage certain population groups from being counted you know like say like like fake news that the Census Bureau is giving your data to the you

Know I see easy things like that and it would be fake so that that’s that’s one thing the other thing though that I also think is sometimes concerning are the unfounded attacks on on data so you know there have been attacks made that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is just cooking the

Unemployment statistics which it doesn’t do but that does make it hard for the Bureau of Labor Statistics sometimes to be viewed as credible so you all I think everybody here understands that the data that that the federal government puts out the Federal Statistical system is you know objective unbiased as high

Quality as it can be so helping that is good but but it’s it’s a real challenge though to deal with a lot of the issues that come up is there any fear or thought that this could be used and the things that are happening with the shortness or the shortening on funding

And the fact that there is no Census Bureau Chief that has been confirmed that it could be used as an effort to undermine or attack the integrity of the data that we’re going to collect yeah it certainly could be there although let me just say this the Census Bureau the

Census Bureau is doing fine right now without a director they’ve got the census only has three political positions anyway and I’m one of them then there’s there’s two others and they have a very good career person who’s acting as the director and a very good career person who’s acting as the deputy

Director so they’re there they’re moving along right now so it would be good for them to have a director that the big advantage of having a director that is you know confirmed by the administration as charged is that the director has great access to the administration and they have the support of the

Administration when they go to the Congress and they can push a lot harder on certain things than a career person can do and they’re going to need that as they get closer to the to the 2020 census but in the short term they’re there they’re making all the progress they can okay good

I know that there have been some proposals over the years to make the Census Bureau either an independent agency or there’s been talk and there’s probably been some legislation about privatizing the data and so the potentially limiting the access or having you know all of us who use that

In our jobs having to pay for the access to that data in your guys’s opinion do you think that’s a good idea that one of these avenues is sought-after is there something else that we should be advocating for in terms of good data another model that might be you know

Overcomes the funding gives the ability to collect all this information in efficient manner Wow so there there aren’t any active proposals currently under consideration for elevating the Census Bureau to making it an independent agency if you will there have been efforts in the past and I could argue either side of that

That coin I happen to wearing my hat as the director of government affairs for the population Association of America did take a position in support of making the Census Bureau an independent agency with some provisions that talk is really phone to the wayside I think there is a concern particularly get closer to

Decennial we don’t want to see you know this get caught up in a politicized you know debate about the organization of the Census Bureau and where it’s located currently in the Department of Commerce where it has a lot of support by the way I think from both career and

Administration officials so I don’t think that that’s something that APA needs to worry about at this point in time the but I think we all of us as as advocates of the Federal Statistical system writ large talked a lot about the principles and practices of Federal Statistical agencies that the National Academy of

Sciences has issued and the importance of ensuring that staff on Capitol Hill and policy makers know that there are principles of practices by which we want to see Federal Statistical agencies managed and and and that the new political directors of these agencies follow these principles and practices is an important point I

Think to make in these meetings would you agree yeah yeah no I well you know we’re not I I actually really thought that I was better positioned being in the Department of Commerce because they had I had a good relationship with penny Pritzker and you know the Secretary of

Commerce and so it’s good to have a cabinet-level person advocating for you I don’t know that it’s as if census was an independent agency would ever get elevated to a cabinet position probably not but so that that’s that that was really good again that that stresses though the importance of having getting

A census director confirmed so there’s someone there that can connect with wolveroach and you know have that representation at the level um the other thing though is that the Commission on evidence-based policy one of the things they’re recommending a big part is creating a national secured data service

Which which would have the authority to bring together data from across the government and this I think would which would start laying the groundwork for real efficiencies in producing federal statistics by having this ability to bring all these different datasets together and look at certain evaluations

That we really can’t do now and also having a uniform process for for applying to access federal data is I know if I don’t I don’t know if you all try to get to the route to the census Micro data or the other agency Micro data but it can be very problematic

Right now there’s a different process for every agency and they want OMB to come up and come up with a standardized way to do that which we make access in secure environments to to researchers and individuals a lot easier I would be concerned about having a private organization access to that kind

Of data and hold it so for privacy and ethical issues we have private jails and I’m still wondering about that but I was just to say members of the business community don’t advocate for it either not because they just not because they just don’t want to pay for it because

They they see this is it’s an important part of our the enterprise system that everyone has equal access to the data from small businesses to the large corporations and so everybody can sort of play fairly in that space by having equal access to data so good good so not

Or to talk about one of your points that you just mentioned a few minutes ago about use utilizing data not only in the federal level but at the local level and so we’ve seen a growing number of cities that are appointing chief data officers at their local level and you know

President Obama was the first a minute had the first administration that appointed the first chief federal data officer what are your thoughts on this trend do you think it will keep going and then how can these positions evolved to help planners at the local level and their communities use that use that data

To tell this tell the planning story of that community then they can they can have a very productive role we have chief data officer chief information officers chief innovation officers as part of this 100 cities resilient network we have chief resilience officer as well all of these are they’re not very old

But there are pretty new it’s a little bit hard to say how effective those roles are so my understanding is that for example in the case of chief resilience officer it’s a little bit hard for some of them to work with all of these different departments and find out their role

Because they get overwhelmed but I think basically we need we need a moderator we need someone to work with all of these different departments on this role as chief information officers our chief innovation officers whatever that is but I’m still wondering if it should be like

One or two person or it should be a department or a group that’s focused on that because in a lot of cases I see my colleagues who are in these roles to get overwhelmed very easily and they’re just still trying to figure out okay so what

Are the things that we’re going to touch on and what are the things that we’re going to focus on but but I think we need something like that so it can be a person or it can be a group that does this kind of activity so but we need to

Think about data interoperability and all of those issues to make sure that these people in these roles are are effective and they can they can do their job but um I personally support that no Joe Jon neither one of you have any thoughts on that so from a federal perspective there

There’s a little bit of of not tensions not the right word but there there’s some work that has to be done to bring you know what what is data quality what are appropriate data uses from a statistical or scientific perspective and then then there’s the chief information officer which you know or

Basically these are the computing environments you use and things like that but it’s to find the right balance between the chief information officer and say a chief data officer so let’s talk a little bit about the future thinking into the future you know John you talked a little bit about some

Of the changes that the Census Bureau is making here for the 2020 census and so you know hopefully we’ll get everything worked out and get underway there but think about 2030 or 2040 I mean we know that our community our country is changing and in different ways regarding different parameters what

Are the things that we’re going to need to do differently in the future to take an accurate census and to be able to track all the trends within our country that that’s a really timely question census when I left was right in the process of trying to really really get

Their hands around what what it would look like in 2030 and they’d gone to certain they’ve been talking not talking that suck right they they had actually been working with a number of different groups and there were a couple things that were that were certainly being

Explored and that is doing maybe a more person based census as opposed to a household based and making much greater use of administrative records sources because the ability to use those that is much more advanced and sort of sort of do a rolling type census over the years

But there’s still a lot of there’s still a lot of work that has to be done to really envision what a census would be doing in 2030 so from a political perspective I guess that’s my value added to this conversation is we have to change the environment in which funding

For the Bureau is appropriated I think members understand the ramp up and ramp down over the course of the ten years leading up to the decennial but with these austere budget caps that we have moving forward for the next 10 or so years it’s going to be very hard for the

Bureau to get the kind of resources it needs and to prepare for the the next decennial which people already be starting to prepare for soon enough so that that’s an important change it has to take place yeah I think that’s okay not on what about from a technology angle what do

You think we need to be focusing on for 2030 2040 I would so so it’s hard for Census Bureau to focus on local data but I would love to see them providing standards for municipalities so that they can use those standards for their own data production I mean there are all

Of these cities gathering data and collecting data and providing data but there are different there are in different formats and a very different standards so I would love to see something like that happening and that standard our thing would help a lot with a lot of interoperability issues that we

Are dealing with now right now okay well not as you probably know and as our planners know out here we use a lot of this data and we use GIS and we build scenarios to help understand where communities want to go where we’ve been where we want to go and so it’s it’s

Become a basic tool within our toolbox and of course the data from the Census Bureau from the American Community Survey drives what we can do in GIS so is there any thought from any of you on the future of this tool in using it with data and do you think that we’re making

Progress with it in order to better engage the public in local planning so who wants to take the first crack at that one I’m very glad that GIS technology is getting easier and easier to you like ten years ago working with arcgis desktop was hard and it was really

Clunky and it was not really easy to work with right now you can work with ArcGIS online and simply use it for even personal purposes it’s not only for it’s not a professional tool only it’s you can use it to to learn about your neighborhood and all that and it’s

Getting easier and easier so that people are using it and their daily lives and I love that I love seeing something like that I so ARP livability index is a good example it’s it’s a it’s a web-based GIS you can go and search for the address of

Your neighborhood and it pops up there is a score you can change the factors that you want to work with and see what is the score of the livability of my neighborhood based on for example obesity or based on income or based on rent or how all of these factors work

Together and these kinds of easy-to-use applications that people can use for their daily lives I think that’s a huge improvement and I’m very happy to see that and I think it’s growing so fast and probably two or three years from now I think it’s gonna be part of everyday

Life of people I mean right now people are using Zillow very easy it’s a GIS application so I think in a very short period of time we’re gonna see this happening everywhere and it’s gonna be very common I’m excited about that hmm great John any thoughts in terms I know

The Census Bureau has has a partnership with ESRI and there is a linkage there and with the on the map program it’s a little bit easier for us to use that data yeah no I mean that’s just echo what not our said I mean just looking at

The the ease with which you can use products to visualize it’s just growing by leaps and bounds and tableau for example you know you can bring some data into that pretty easily and do some really nice graphics but it there it’s just there’s just been a real explosion of using geospatial technology

As technology to display data in ways that makes it easy to understand okay let me ask you one more question then I’ll open it up to our audience here so all of you be thinking of some questions and we have a mic in the center of the

Room you know I think a lot of times for us and even with the government it’s really not the fact that we have the data it’s really whether the data can be scaled accessed analyzed and coordinating your way that is useful to our policymakers and to us as planners

In the public you know what are the things that we could be doing to make sure that we get better tools that allow us to analyze that data and not just be getting all this influx of information that you that is online from the Census and other agencies well I think one

Thing you can’t be doing and I’m sure you are are paying attention to announcements in the Federal Register when there are opportunities to comment on the development of new tools and innovations I mean even the the new race and ethnicity standards that have imagined you’ve engaged in that a debate

I know for example when wearing my PA a hat I’m involved a lot and issues related to the National Institutes of Health and there was just recently a request for information with respect to data collected through this new environmental influences on child health outcomes initiative that was a really

Important opportunity for us to weigh in and give them some important guidance about how they could ensure these data were more accessible and usable to to diverse data users both in applied and academic said so I think that that’s that that’s sort of the low-hanging fruit you know be

Sure to take advantage of those opportunities when they come to you and say you know give us your feedback and I know there’s a there are a lot of those opportunities and I really defer to your your your policy team at APA to help determine which ones are most important

For you to address but I personally always make flagging those that come from the Census Bureau and from NIH for my members through PAA okay okay why don’t we open it up to our audience here and see if anyone has any questions for you all

We have Trevor with a mic we have a mic here in the center of the room come on up and it looks like Andres gonna be our first taker so Andre tell us your full name and where you’re from sure my name is Andre Anderson I’m from

Florida and I’m speaking to you today as a member of APA and not necessarily as a present of Florida chapter because I’m not sure I have authorization to speak on behalf of Florida I was very pleased to hear your presentation about the forward movement of the census to make

Any more technology-based and so on and I also was intrigued by that slide that showed the comparison of the undercounted folks and my personal story is I had the good fortune of emigrated to the US when I was a kid 15 I’m much older now and I’m mostly

U.s. citizen so I am NOT one of those hidden or undocumented immigrants I proud to be an American and enjoy the ability to live in this country but I’m very concerned that with the challenges that we’re facing right now with the crackdown on undocumented immigrants and the hidden population whatever that might be

Whether its youth homeless and others and veterans and and so on that we’re not getting a good picture of our actual populations locally and whether they exist or not whether it’s the document or not they do exist and they impact our communities as far as providing services

For them and I would like to hear a little bit more about how we address it ice yeah you’ve mentioned a little at a third party some other things is your what exactly are we doing to kind of narrow that gap so we can accurately reflect those folks because again

They’re very concerned they’re very scared they don’t want to talk to anyone they see a form they’re gonna throw in the mail and it’s a huge concern for me personally having you know been an emigrant but again not undocumented but went through the channels to become a

U.s. citizen thank you so census is going to be very very active in reaching out to communities in number of ways one way that I think the motive you’ve probably been involved in is they work with local governments to form complete count committees which bring together local forces to work with the Census

Bureau to address how in their community they well we’ll get a good count and census has guidelines on how to establish a complete count committee and that is a really good start for a local government in terms of getting everyone counted other guidelines or other things that

They have for this committee in terms of maybe multiple languages you know especially with the diversity increasing in our our country so there they do plan to have a very active language program but again this is this is where it’s almost like a broken record but they

Need to be spending more money right now to catch up and get this program underway in a bit in a big way I mean they right now they have 46 individuals that they’ve hired to to do this partnership program nationally well 46 people is not going to do that’s not

Even one per state but it’s not going to be anywhere near the effort they need to put in place to get to the local communities and provide them information to get the materials printed up in various languages you know to get and printing just not necessarily be

Digitally available you can make you me download there’s just a lot of work that has to happen and it as I said a lot of it’s been deferred anybody else good afternoon max Sokol president of the New York metro chapter similar to Andre I’m not representing the chapter with this

Question but great panel I have two questions trying to think about why we’re here for this conference and sort of in the near term first with the theme of advocacy being part of why we’re here some of us are going up to Capitol Hill on Tuesday to try and both represent

Ourselves as well as the organization with specific asks for funding John you were pretty clear about specific funding needs that the Census Bureau needs is there a concise message that we can deliver I know the $200,000,000 number was referenced is there something specific organization has some really good talking points

Yeah we do this Thank You John you know the census project has a wealth of resources on our home page the census project org and I’m sure they’ve incorporated some of our messages and the materials that you’ve been reviewing and preparing for your advocacy day yeah members and staff get hung up on

Numbers they would so to give them a number we have been advocating for an additional 300 million dollars for the Census Bureau overall I think John’s numbers were more speaking to the decennial but we’re asking more we’re asking for 1.8 billion for the Census Bureau in fiscal year 18 which is a

Three hundred million dollar increase so that would be and and there are a number of reasons why and I think that that’s when you really do wear your hat as a local representative about what that funding would mean for you and your interests great thank you and one follow-up question National Community

Planning Month is coming up shortly the theme is innovation and planning which seems to be apropos given what we’re talking about it’s great that there’s representation from APA national and division leadership is there anything locally that the chapters can be doing around the country to be supporting the message that were

Conveying here tonight tell me again is there anything that locally that the chapters can be doing to be supporting the message that we’re talking about here tonight yeah I think looking at advocacy at your local chapter level working with the earliest your legislative liaisons that you have that

Each chapter has and you know taking the stuff that we have developed at the national level and you know utilizing those tools and those templates you know crafting that message down to get to so your people at home in your chapters can meet with the representatives to the organization

Or meet with the representatives to the Senate to their house the House of Representatives and then you know may have that message at home you know letter-writing campaigns we also we’ve done a great job this year of being able for our members to go in and type their

Name in in their zip code and it automatically pulls in their that information and the congressional leader or congressional leaders from their district and then they can send emails to them regarding this information so I would encourage you to utilize all the tools that we have work with your state

Liaisons and I will also say we as an organization are moving towards having state captains or state chairs trying to take what we do at the national level and really make it robust at the state and grassroots level and so we have four states that have signed on to that

Program and I have identified that person it would be helpful if we have other chapters other states who are able to do that that we could really become robust because I think as Mary Jo would say what really becomes effective with our logic local legislation or local legislature state legislators is that

They’re hearing from local planners and local citizens that are in their district that they represent and the more people that we could get out and reach to them about our concerns regarding data the more successful we will be in terms of changing that legislation and going back to your idea

About innovation and also how what chapters can do divisions are very excited work and working with chapters and these kinds of things and like organizing local activities so if you are interested in that you can you can follow up with different chapters depending on the type of activity you

Would like to do and they are very open to that so our chapter would be happy to co-sponsor an event if you’re interested in doing something related to technology and innovation so I just hope I have a lot nerve talking about your initiative I have no idea what it entails but I

Hope it includes a very strong social media component as you know our president it’s a big fan of Twitter members of Connor strike fans on Twitter letter-writing campaigns are great but honestly in this new age on Capitol Hill and you’ll hear this when you’re with offices in fact you probably we’re told

But in your advocacy training tweeted these offices before you go to them tell them you’re excited to see them you know start laying the groundwork now so when you later are tweeting about your your monthly your activities related to this month that they’re sort of set the stage

And know who you are and why you’re interested in great right thank you all okay well that comes up to our six o’clock ow oh do we have one more question two more is it okay trying to find my staff okay my name is Bonnie Carranza I teach water

Resources planning at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore so very nearby I was struck by the lack of going through this stuff about federal data that I didn’t see anything on the list of what’s considered kind of the primary having anything to do with environmental

Data such as data such as EPA FEMA US Geological Survey NOAA and I know there’s a lot of us use that type of data and planning and I mean with the climate change issues and are there any activities abroad on trying to either save Salvage manage or you know keep

Going the the validity and reliability of that type of data that we need for the environmental resources not just as well as our social and welfare I’m just curious where you are on that because it’s not looking very good yeah so I was a little remiss I did speak mostly about the Federal

Statistical system the apartment Commerce isn’t his essence it’s really a huge data agency and say you’ve got census you’ve got very economic analysis you’ve got NOAA with all their their data you’ve got NIST and you’ve got the Patent and Trademark Office and they are they are still there and they’re still

Producing all that data NOAA’s producing tariffs it’s I don’t know what what the word is bigger than terabyte but all that data is coming out and being used okay last question my name is Charles I’m from Tucson Arizona my question is and I may get some of the details wrong that but

In the 20-10 sentence census there were some issues that cost cost overrun of a couple of billion dollars so I was just hoping if you could explain what those issues were how it plays into how and if what they’re trying to do differently this year how and if it plays into the

Politics of funding it for twenty to twenty and I asked that in the context of us going up to Capitol Hill and talking about this that’s often used as kind of one of the arrows against funding a census and a knock against the bureau so I’m just trying to better

Understand the issue as we head up there sure so I was on the outside when this happened but I did get to weigh in on it so leading up to the 2010 census the Census Bureau had a vision of using handheld devices to conduct the census

And they had a large contract that was in place to do that the contract didn’t get managed very well and they had to scrap the program at the last minute well last minute being you’re an ADA Nate and go back to a paper-based methodology the impact of

That was it required a lot more money coming in to the Census Bureau to support the paper-based so the important difference between what happened in 2010 and what’s going on now is that there never was a handheld device to really be tested in any kind of program so census

Has tested a smartphone as the device going back to 2013 2014 2015 2016 so the the it’s more than just this sort of concept that’s out there it hasn’t been done it’s been it’s been done the other important thing is census made a huge commitment to use existing technology

And not not using cutting-edge so everything they’re doing is existing even to automate the the kind of optimization they’re doing they’re not they’re not reinventing optimized route planning and things like that they’re using what what exists in the industry to do optimized route planning and

They’re going to be be doing this in a cloud environment they’ve already done the public facing systems in the cloud virus so the point of the census is way ahead of where they were in the 2010 cycle they even issued an operational plan a pre detailed plan in 2015 which

Was you know three years earlier than they’ve been they’ve done anything like that in previous censuses so they’ve really been focused on good planning and using existing technology but unfortunately Congress hasn’t provided the resources of the same scale right so I think the important message too is you

Have an opportunity now to get this right they have an opportunity to test these technologies that are very different from what was used in the previous decade that they attempted to use in the previous decade but Congress needs to do its its part and provide the resources and that’s why it’s terrific

That you’re going up there and they’re going to be can this message to them okay well thank you all for attending let’s get a big

ID: e3ag36EFeBg
Time: 1506356139
Date: 2017-09-25 19:45:39
Duration: 01:30:31

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