Title:حمل و نقل پایدار: چیست؟

این پخش اینترنتی در حال حاضر فقط برای مشاهده در دسترس است و دیگر برای اعتبارات AICP CM قابل استفاده نیست. با حمایت: بخش برنامه ریزی حمل و نقل توضیحات: با افزایش جمعیت شهری، نیاز به سیستم های حمل و نقل پایدار به طور فزاینده ای حیاتی است. اکنون جوامع باید مجموعه ای از عوامل پیچیده را در برنامه ریزی حمل و نقل و کاربری زمین، از جمله حمل و نقل انبوه، توسعه اقتصادی، جوامع قابل زندگی، تراکم جمعیت، تغییرات آب و هوا، انرژی های جایگزین و غیره در نظر بگیرند. این وبینار به بررسی مفاهیم پشت حمل و نقل پایدار می پردازد و مروری بر اجرای موفقیت آمیز اصول حمل و نقل پایدار در نروژ ارائه می دهد. این وبینار همچنین برنامه‌ای در دانشگاه واشنگتن را پوشش می‌دهد که برای آموزش برنامه‌ریزان و مهندسان طراحی شده است تا دیدگاه پایداری را به تمام جنبه‌های سیاست و برنامه‌ریزی سیستم‌های حمل‌ونقل ارائه دهند.

قسمتي از متن فيلم: Hello everyone and welcome to the webcast my name is christine dorsey davis i’m the executive director of the Ohio chapter of APA and chair of the New Urbanism division and I am your webcast moderator today is Friday August 17th or 18th it might be the 17th and we will be

Hearing the presentation sustainable transportation what is it for technical help during today’s webcast you can type your questions in the chat box find the webcast toolbar to the right of your screen or you can call that 1-800 number for your content questions related to the presentation again type those and

Then in the chat box located in your webinar toolbar and we’ll answer those at the end of the presentation during the Q&A coming up on your screen is a list of the sponsoring chapters and divisions for 2018 thanks to all of the sponsoring chapters and divisions for making these webcasts possible and free

To their members today’s webcast in particular is sponsored by the transportation planning division so thanks to them and you can learn about them at planning that org slash divisions to log your cm credits for attending today’s webcast just head over to planning that org and log into your

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Our webcast web page Ohio planning that org slash planning webcast and like us on Facebook poll and webcast series to receive up-to-date information on our upcoming sessions and we are recording this webcast it will be available at the conclusion of today’s session on our youtube channel just head over to

Youtube and search planning webcast and we’ll also have a PDF available at the end of this session again just head over to our web cast web page ohio planning dot org slash planning webcast all right with that I am going to get us started turn it over to Ed McCormick who is our

First presenter and he’s gonna kick everything off Edie hi thanks let me get my screen going here and I need to swap hey this is I’m ed McCormack I’m the director of the Masters of sustainable transportation program the University of Washington and so we’re going to be talking about

Sustainable transportation and look at some examples from Norway I’d like to thank the APA for sponsoring this and particularly like to thank Eric Howell who is on Executive Committee in Ohio for helping set up and arrange this and looks like a really great turnout for a Friday in August so I appreciate

Everybody being here so here’s the agenda and we’re gonna do a little bit of introductions I’m going to talk on a high level about why sustainable transportation a little bit about our master’s program here at Universe Washington Orion Avery’s going to give an overview of sustainable transportation and I’m going to talk

About sort of the sustainable transportation one of the more sustainable countries in the world which is Norway and we’ll have questions at the end so as I indicated I’m at McCormick I’m a professor at UW Universe Washington civil environmental engineering I direct a master’s program and sustainable transportation and maybe

More applause relevant for this seminar is I have been a senior engineer for the Norwegian public roads administration who’s kind of a now goes to the state do T or a national do T nan Ryan who will be talking shortly is a senior transportation planner at WSPU it used

To be called Parsons bring her off and he teaches here at the University of Washington as an affiliate professor and he’s a civil engineer by training so let me talk about why sustainable transportation or fairly high-level and I want to address why we have a program of sustainable transportation you know

Probably being planners you probably know that transportation impacts climate change transportation produces greenhouse gas transportation has impacts on human health both in terms of externalities and also active transportation transportation uses energy uses resource there’s transportation obviously has mobility and social justice impacts and clearly you know transportation has a

Big impact in the economy if people go to work ecommerce is becoming much more common as people order things through Amazon to be there in two hours and so transportation has a pretty complex relationships of all these societal considerations but you can also use transportation to make change and

Modify and impact all these considerations for example you could get people out of cars in the non motorized modes which impacts health and air emissions and things like that you can control travel demand management clearly tolls and pricing modify how our transportation system is used and where

People travel that modes they travel on transit does the same thing let’s get people out of cars into public transit and impacts congestion and then air pollution quite a few sort of relevant elements like that you know and increasingly in the transportation profession we’re talking about autonomous connected vehicles they’re

Gonna change how our transportation system impacts our world and we need to look at that and be in planners you probably know that land-use impacts transportation transportation impacts land use and that’s why we have things like transit oriented development where we try and get people out of cars into

Transportation there’s an endless number of sort of linkages between transportation in our societies and we’ve recognized that and we have come up with a program here at the University of Washington where we focus completely on sustainable transportation or so we look at planning and policy and research

And analysis all focused on you know the different aspects of transportation and so we explore the sort of the growing concerns for transportation impacts of across a lot of categories we look at environmental issues social issues energy issues economic issues and we look at a number of tools to address the

Impact of transportation in our society and it’s it’s an online program it’s designed for working professionals it’s sort of a part-time online format with 43 credits and so it’s an evening class there’s a live session and then there’s a lot of there’s work outside of the live session so it’s designed for people

What jobs who want to either learn new skills and they’re looking for to get a new job or just advance their career and so it’s nine courses over three focus areas over three years and so if you’re interested you can search on sustainable transportation UW and there’s the URL

Down there so with that I think all its I’ll put Ryan up and Ryan can give you a little bit more detailed overview of what sustainable transportation involved so I’ll change to Ryan and he can maybe introduce himself – okay there you go Ryan all right thank you add you all can hear

Me right yes yeah okay great make sure I need myself all right hi my name is Ryan Avery I’m a transportation planner engineer by training and I’ve been teaching in this state of all transportation program at the University of Washington for nine years now I teach the introductory course in sustainable

Transportation which is transmit data sustainable transportation planning which is really fun course to teach is sort of your typical plan of course but it also covers what everything from sort of a sustainable perspective of the sort of normal way that canning used to be done and how sustained that he is taking

On a bigger focus of that Sanders equally forward-thinking so plantings are different changing time a collective audience which is correct the image here is from Urbana in stockholm village spent two years living there in sweden we have all these great nordic examples in our slides because i’ve spent time in

Sweden ed has spent time in Norway but up so let me pictures from somewhere else as well so why will sustainability matter well right off the bat I start there they’re not manage to be able to read the small text to view them and you

Could but this is a chart from the World Wildlife fund’s their living can required this is a 2006 version of their report they have a more recent versions but they switch it to a map based view and I actually like this chart it sort of highlights the problem a little bit

Better in my mind and what you have here you have a chart along the x axis we have the Human Development Index on zero is a really low development certain system sets and one is perfectly developed you know very modern economies like what many would confuse in the

Western world as and then along the y-axis you have the ecological footprint so how many global hectares of land the average person from each country consumes and then these little bubbles here these are individual countries and they’re colored by continents and their size represents relative population as

You can see the USA sits right up there at the top in more recent versions for recent data sometimes it’s a fight between us in a couple countries in the Middle East in terms of which ones each other but the general trend even though this charges you know the latest version

Was 2016 without a good friend of your half based view general trend hasn’t changed the US were pretty high up there were around nine things have gotten a little bit better in some countries of ours matters and so what this chart means to show is that dashed line at the

Bottom that’s the average high of the best available sense in terms of everything you do who needs particularly this major how much travel you do carbon emissions office it’s round 1.8 1.9 persons and so if every country in the world aspires to be like us in the

United States we have a real problem is we over there and so that quadrant in the corner doesn’t sustain the bhindi quadrant that is the quadrants of sustainability and that sort of where we want to be where you want high development the creature comforts of

Modern life are not going to you know go back to the most people that revolt and we did you know go back to no driving at all and you can’t use any energy and anything like that if we don’t have soon some of those choices might be made for

Us but a high level of development but also has to be that way so this next guy so I’m sorry I’m just gonna interrupt you for a second there are there people in the background really is there picking up a lot of folks are typing in I know

You’re in the hotel so it might be job or if you know who they are yeah I sort of picked the corner let me see there like a little quick to judge another life cause you up a slide here so the next slide here is a chart from

The vision guidance and it shows it’s sort of the same concept is the premium line where the point is we’re trying to demonstrate the directions that we can move and we obviously want to maintain a high quality standard of living so the x-axis you know quantity of life and on

The y-axis you have the environmental footprint and the arrow there is pointing to the direction we want to move them because what we’re finding is you know if you decrease if you make our environmental footprint better but you actually lower the quality of life it’s considered sacrifice and that may be

Necessary but right now we need like we like to keep a quality of life but it decays our footprints and making environment better so we want to sort of move down in that lower right quadrant hopefully that’s a bit better for noise I know you can’t really help it but

We’re still getting folks typing in our speaker is in a hotel not by choice so and we’ll try this if this works better I don’t know if there’s any better so far so good thanks Ryan sorry okay that’s probably my headphones pick up too much maybe if

You did it okay we’ll go with us sorry ah traveling in Toronto sir okay so why sustainable transportation so we talked a bit about sustainability and it sort of league so the point was is that there’s this changes they need to be made but we’d like to make them while

Improving our quality of life rather than sacrificing and right now we’re at a point where again much of the world is in much of the developing world is aiming to become more like the Western world China in India in particular have developed very rapidly over the last 25 years their economies have grown

Immensely but they are also now beginning to live much lifestyles that lead to a lot more consumption that they used to and they’re beginning to consume more on a Western standard rather than what they did before you see this here this image the background here is an

Image of Beijing traffic it’s nice and smog II can’t see very far and this is just highlighting one of the major issues which people here of course are very familiar with that’s the transportation accounts for a large portion of our energy use and our carbon emissions in the northwest where

The University of Washington is we’re very fortunate to have very green energy sources a lot of our power comes from hydro which is great but then that means that the vast majority of our carbon emissions comes in transportation transportation and building heating is are basically the two major sources so

And you know highlight one thing I’ll come back to a little bit later but even if we switch to electric vehicles it’s a shift but the electric vehicles that electricity is still generated somewhere and so if an electricity is generated by hydro that’s one thing but then that

Electricity is generated by coal then you just sort of moved the tailpipe of emissions to the factory there could be some economies of scale in terms of cleaning that sort of thing but yes it still doesn’t necessarily solve the problem just by having electric electric vehicle yourself we also have to have

Green power urbanization is continuing worldwide more and more people are moving to the cities and that’s posing challenges for cities as they grow but this also poses an opportunity because with that urbanization comes density and density provides for some economies of scale where then you know urban transport and those sorts of

Things are more feasible as long as you develop and have the right sort of incentives to make sure that you’re building you know sustainable type systems rather than expanding the amount of vehicles driving and this sort of thing so I had already mentioned the feedback loop a little bit between land use and

Transportation and that’s a major component that of course planning is very focused on sort of thinking about how we design for things how we plan for things how people get from point A to point B which is the big point of transportation here you have an image

Many of you probably seen this before connectivity is a big issue and how you provide that connectivity has profound implications on how people move themselves and so in this very simple example you know if you live in a neighborhood and you have sort of the suburban cul-de-sac type concept of the

Few connector streets that head out to the main arterials without any passageways it can take some time for somebody to go from that house to the school in the upper right hand corner whereas if you have more of a grid Street network or some actual connectors that allow for bikes and pedestrians to

Walk through it’s a much more direct path and so somebody on the left side of the image they’re probably more likely maybe to drive and drop their kid up at the school where is that on the right hand side a kid can probably walk maybe you

Can walk in the school you might even trust them to walk themself and so we we as planners know that these kinds of things make a huge difference but we need to look at encouraging more of the types of things on the right and even where you have existing developments on

The left and then maybe look at some things as simple as getting access easements between properties to provide a sidewalks to have that direct connection that’s a very simple way that you can make things a lot better for a relatively small amount of money this image provides a an actual you know

Sort of photographic example of it again you sort of have that classic suburban development on the left you know we houses take up large amounts of land is very auto oriented everybody drives here you just don’t really have choice even if you wanted to do something else it might not be that

Beautiful whereas on the right you have the classics the transit oriented development with you know multi-story housing some light rail and so there’s some real opportunity to change the way that people travel based on the land use and so land use is really important but of course it changes on a very slow

Timeframe and land use is not something that you can just change overnight but when cities are redeveloping and particularly some of the urban cores of American sees that are hollowed out in the previous century there are some great opportunities to to redevelop those of course now the challenge is

Affordable housing and living in Seattle many of us are quite familiar with that that’s obviously conversation for another entire course could discuss that topic so what do we do well as I mentioned we have to change how we plan design build and then we have to change everything and it’s really I think

People are beginning to get their minds wrapped around it but there’s it’s a lot more than just you know window dressing you have to really look at the entire process and tried it you can’t just look at it say oh let’s try to add sustain within the in here you really have to

Sort of reframe the entire process from a sustainable mindset and part of that is considering the lifecycle costs and effect of things so many times in the past there have been incentives short-term things sometimes we didn’t consider the full costs of things you know there was some funding from an

Outside source for something you would just build a highway because the money was was there and you just sort of took advantage of it even if it wasn’t necessarily a project that was needed we now live in a much more constrained fiscal environment so those projects

Don’t happen as often as they used to which is a good thing but still thinking about trying to make sure that you invest your money for the projects that actually have the most values doing cost-benefit analyses that actually look at the fully burdened cost and you know lifecycle investment obviously focusing

On livability again this goes back to land use and you know providing maybe some transit oriented development finding ways to allow people to live closer in more compact housing density which is you know just a four letter word and planning circles in terms of trying to get people to accept that

People can be can support it but getting it is much more difficult even looking at alternative energy sources obviously a wind knows wind energy solar energy or big I was in upstate New York recently though and I just saw a lot of signs and the neighborhoods against the some of

The plans were apparently the governor wants to look at doing some windows along Lake Ontario and you know local population is not so keen on that because I think it’s an eyesore so there are always challenges but looking at those kinds of different solutions the whole whole way through and also not

Forgetting again mentioned Freight you know effort delivery Amazon you know how we get our goods even commercial goods things like that we can’t forget about those breaks because they do represent a large amount with transportation authority happens on both on our streets and on the rail system

The planning is already changing as I mentioned standards are very forward-thinking because they’re always thinking you know 20 30 years in the future anyway so cleaners have already been doing that so the thing is that these tanners are doing this even some cases before sustainability was really becoming a hot topic the Complete

Streets was an important movement with it you know people were really pushing to accommodate all modes and making sure that you are thinking about cyclists and pedestrians and not just vehicles so there’s much more of a walking and biking emphasis now these days you’re seeing cities and states across the

Country start doing them bike plans where they’re developing their networks and really trying to provide that connectivity you know having really nice connections between all the facilities so people can actually make a full trip among nice all-ages type facilities demand management is always key you still spend a lot of time thinking about

That that again is very much more policy oriented and so it really depends on the political environment in the city or state that you’re in pricing and tolling is obviously something that’s going to be a larger and larger component Washington statement has done quite a

Bit of tolling as of late then you have you know congestion and tolling like in Stockholm and I actually lived there when they first implemented that and that was interesting to see them but pricing is a very important component but very difficult because there’s obviously a lot of resistance that’s

Perceived as a new tax of sorts but there’s ways we’re going to need to pay for the changes that we need to make transit oriented development again mentioned several times and finally really focusing on resiliency and resiliency is something you beginning to hear a lot in planning circles as we

Think about increased likelihood of natural disaster type events whether it’s the many forest fires that we have happening particularly in the west way now to the increased strength of storms we have coming in on the East Coast an increasing number of hurricane and drought type events and these sorts of

Things standing has already been looking at this for a while now looking at sea level rise looking at how certain bow level lands be effective and so really just continuing this trend and really pushing into thinking more about how we make sure that the future we are more

Resilient to not be as susceptible to the effects of climate change that are already happening and will continue to worsen in the short term because not enough is being done one of the nice things I wanted to comment on is that one of the frequent topics that comes up in my classes I

Teach it is this technology 10 technology save us this is really interesting to me I’ve done some work in connected vehicles and I think it’s a great technology for safety there’s a huge potential to reduce the number of people that are dying in our streets every year I mean still true the 40,000

Americans a year die on streets and many of them possessed Rian’s and we can do better than that no autonomous vehicles have great promise there I’m a little bit less polish on how no I don’t think that it’s going to be that rosy future world where we’ll have electric automatic automated

Vehicles as if being complained a to point B and everybody would just wind up where they need to be I think that policy plays a big part in this and we have to think about what happens because if we have everybody commuting to work and home in autonomous vehicles and

You’re a work and you know your spouse calls you and says oh hey can you do this for a minute and you tell your vehicle that was scheduled to pick you up down on the street to just circle the block a few times if you have 10% of the

People and buildings doing that you’re going to create red lock the streets and I still don’t believe it’s the most efficient form of transportation it’s great for first last mile but I don’t think it’s going to be the perfect solution that save everything and in that same vein Hyperloop you know

There’s less these other things here’s you know these are things that people use and I almost think they mean well we should still pursue some of them when they’re actually feasible but sometimes it distracts or sort of sucks the oxygen out of the room in terms of actually

Looking at things that know that people are sort of hanging their hat on at home oh we don’t have to worry about the climate because we’ll have the Hyperloop in three years and then we’ll just be able to do take that everywhere that’s really not true same thing with Aris covers Emily might

As well be expecting to have transporters in Star Trek and even that wouldn’t solve our problem because then we would just have a huge energy crisis as everybody wants to zip from point A to point B so you know technology plays a role it’s definitely important but

Technology is not a panacea and we can’t count on it we still have to make changes and that’s why planning is so important is we have to guide people into this and you know sort of leave that chain so we want to see over the next 20 to 30 years

So with that I’m going to return it to add this is just a picture of the leave of the librarian Masdar City when I worked there on Haissam high-speed rail project back seven years ago and looks a bit like an armadillo so I promised I’d have another picture from somewhere else

And really interesting initiative we’ll see where it goes so with that I’m going to return back to you you you Oh hi everybody can you hear me well it’s like I said let’s let’s go to Norway both Ryan and I are scan two files because we’ve been there a lot and I’ve

Been fortunate over the last 30 years to have a number of positions in Norway and then I come back to United States like currently I’m a professor at a Norwegian University sighs I’ve spent quite a bit of time there and I’ve been able to compare their system to our system and

So I’m going to talk about what’s going the wrong way there talk about that so I’m going to discuss why Norway as a sustainable transportation icon I’m going to present a few examples that I think kind of make Norway unique and I’m also going to speculate a little bit

About kind of you know their attitudes and their programs and why they value sustainability so much but first let me give you a high-level overview of Norway try to put things in context they have a pretty high per capita income they’re number five in the world and just by

Comparison the USA is number nine they’re a major oil exporter which is a big source of income as well as fisheries and some other things but unlike the United States incomes pretty evenly distributed you can look at like the Gini index or some of those other indexes that show income distribution so

It’s pretty much a middle class country it’s what’s known as the social welfare democracy so they have universal health care free college tuition a very solid pension plan very generous maternity and paternity benefits you get a year off that kind of thing so they take pretty good care of their citizens it’s

Typically when there’s happiness surveys are often in the top ranks you know Norway Denmark Sweden often are up from the top five and they’re not officially part of the European Union but they follow the EU mandates they participate in the EU program sway act like they’re in the European Union but they’re not

Officially part of the European Union now I want to show Ryan showed this slide and you’ll see our way over there and what I wanted to point out that is Norway it’s kind of unique place and then it’s ranked number one in human development so it has kind of the the

Good qualities and it’s fairly low on the ecology footprint index and it’s getting lower over time so it’s a interesting place and that sort of from that aspect so Norway again to put it a little more in context has about the same populations Minnesota it’s about the same size as New Mexico

As many road miles as Wyoming and the densities like Nevada so it’s not a big place it’s has a lot of coastline sixteen thousand miles of coastline and it’s a very rugged in a very mountainous and Arctic country so half the country is an Arctic which means in the winter

You know there’s 24 hours darkness and there’s a lot of snow and just sort of their transportation budgets around 7 billion dollars so it’s it’s not a large place and they have considering that it’s a very mountainous country and that it’s also they have severe winters

That’s you know some point every part of the country has snow in it so they have all the winter maintenance challenges things like that and many of the cities have old or urban form you know it’s built around medieval cities so they have narrow streets you know designed

Before vehicles so you consider that it’s mountainous it’s a high northern country with a lot of article weather and it has tight constrained streets it’s actually in some ways pretty amazing how functional how sustainable their transportation system is it’s a very green place I mean they have stated

National goals that all new vehicles sold in the country are zero emissions by 2025 so you know not too far out they they want no new passion vehicle growth in their urban areas and they’re going to be trying to be carbon neutral by 2030 and this is partially by buying

Carbon offsets you know more places have these goals most countries you kind of look at them away I’ll say yeah maybe but I think Norway stands a really good chance at making these goals now this is an advanced society you know it’s it’s it’s a well-to-do place and so they do

Have pretty higher environmental impacts and I think that partially drives their interest in being a green place because they realize they have consequences to be in a fairly rich country and they try and mitigate them let the environmental policies you’ll see as we go through this presentation pretty well integrated and

You know just to indicate kind of where they are they’re there they have stable greenhouse gases emissions even though the transportation volume has increased the population has increased and they can’t really help you know a big benefit to be in a green place is that 99% of their power comes hydroelectric from

Dams so it’s a pretty clean power source so that helps so you know and it you see Ellen musk was pretty excited that Norway is going to ban petrol powered cars by 2025 and maybe one of the reasons he’s excited is is that they’re the second largest Tesla’s market in the

World so you know they’re buying his cars the first one is clearly the United States Norway is you know six million people United States more than 300 million people and there’s a lot of Tesla cars so as of last year half of all the cars sold are were alternative

Electric cars so there are a lot of electric cars in Norway you know they’re they’re quite common and you can see some features down below just I took of just electric cars all over Trondheim Norway so why are electric cars so common well the reason is that there’s national

Policy and regulations that make it less expensive to own electric car than a gas or diesel vehicle for one thing you get a tax break to purchase electric car there’s lots of tools in Norway and so you get free or no tolls on these toll systems there’s places you can charge

Your car for free you get on the ferry sometimes you get a lower reduce very fair you get parking benefits sometimes there’s there’s taxi and bus lanes you get to drive in and if you have an electric car and gas is relatively expensive and electricity is relatively

Cheap so kind of all those things add up that if you are trying to buy a car in some way in many ways it’s an easier decision my electric car than a diesel or gasoline powered car another element that helps is there’s lots of charging stations all over Norway so you can

Reduce your range anxiety and of course a limitation electric cars is that they only go 200 300 miles so if you’re doing a long trip that’s CERN and the Norwegians have thought about that and has some test corridors green highways there’s one stretching I think 300 miles from Norway to Sweden

It’s a fossil fuel corridor and then it’s also there trying to get Freight on it because you know freights an important part of a transportation economy and so there’s a series of stations designed to recharge your car and there’s also renewable fuel station so this is kind of a conscious effort to

Address one of the limitations with electric cars which is limited range now another reason that makes electric cars feasible is they have a very steep vehicle tax and they’re you know a fuel tax right off the bat so gasoline of all the taxes in it is if you go buy it it’s

About eight dollars per gallon which sort of you know it makes a lot of the cars and Norway smaller just because gas is so expensive but if you buy a standard a fossil fuel car there’s a vehicle purchase tax and it’s tied to how big the car is it’s tied to the

Mission so if you have a you know if you had an American muscle car you’d pay quite a bit because it’s a big heavy car the big engine there’s annual registration taxes which are quite steep when you buy a car you gotta pay like a four or five hundred

Dollar scrap deposit tax so when your cars ultimately sent to the wrecking yard scrap that’s covered if you have a company car you have to pay income tax on that so kind of bottom line is is that electric cars are not taxed near as much as gas at diesel cars and and

That’s sort of a nice side benefit as this it contributes about three billion dollars a year to the Treasury to support transportation projects and other projects so let’s go look at the National Transport plan this plan prioritizes resource and transportation it’s for the whole country and it’s it’s

A guide that’s used I know I’ve seen transportation plans that are not so well implemented but this plan seems to be pretty well integrated into how the transportation system ultimately evolves and part of it is because it’s well funded but right up in the front and the transportation plan they say climate

Considerations are the basis of the work of transportation agencies so they’re very much focused on climate change reducing greenhouse gases and things like that so there’s a lot of goals in this plan that address climate considerations they they’re trying to have zero growth in car traffic mainly

In urban areas you know that it’s a growing country the population is increasing like most countries so the urban areas are growing but they want their growth their transportation growth to be in transit and on motorized modes not in cars there’s a relatively major investment in cycling we’ll talk about in a minute

And you know as Ryan indicated if rates an important part of the transportation system and they’re trying very hard to move Freight off trucks on the road and they’re on to sea because you know it’s a very much a coastal nation and on the rail network and then they also have

Coordinated transportation planning with you know between the the national government the cities and the municipalities local government and the budget for land transport in this plan is about 7.3 billion dollars a year so the in the national transportation plan and one of their stated goals is to cut greenhouse gases during the

Transportation sector by 50% and they’re going to continue to have incentives for zero and low emissions transport you know the tax breaks like I talked about they’re gonna you know if they have room they’re gonna have priority for evey achill x’ and you know low admissions vehicles and they’re for parking because

Parking is often tight in Norwegian cities and there have a program where they going to put a lot more charging stations and support longer trips to help address the problem with range anxiety and they’re gonna have a significant increase in the use of sustainable biofuels research you know

In sort of stations and things like that and they’re gonna continue and invest in their transit system they already have a pretty robust transit system in most urban areas and actually between urban areas but there’s going to be some investment in the transportation plan in bus rapid transit more light rail in

Their cities so one one thing about Norway that’s kind of unique is is they have a retailer everywhere they’re very common Norway there’s about 50 toll systems currently pretty much if you have a car in Norway you have to have an electronic whole tag and 50% of the annual

Construction budget comes from toll so tolls fund a lot of their transportation system and the tools are designed to cover the investment cost of the transportation facility but they also have money that the tolls also cover transit use and non-motorized transportation so if you put in a toll

System with sports driving there’s also a number of alternative support non-motorized transportation or transit on the tolls have a goal of reducing traffic and emissions you know clearly the higher the tolls goal the less people are Drive and it’s often a public-private partnership so you know some private company will work with the

Government to put in a system and they’ll get some benefit from it profit so it’s clearly tolls are a policy tool that are very common Norway and just here’s a map you know to show all the total systems in Norway there there are a lot of tolls between for example where

I live the trip to the airport from city centre used to take about an hour 45 minutes to an hour and now they put in a toll road and it takes about 25 minutes so the tolls currently made a better trip so here’s the tolls a number of

Them are just better roadways they’re tunnels that kind of thing but there’s also a number of toll rings around urban areas and this is a policy and fiscal tool again with a non-motorized allocation to try and control travel in urban areas and so there’s you know crease in the they’re their de facto

Congestion management systems but they they have that sort of sustainable benefit of getting people out of the cars making transit use and other uses more viable but kind of you know I want to talk a little bit about you know why tolls are more common in Norway you know

And for one thing is I indicated it’s a really rugged country so anytime you put in a road it’s really expensive the tolls are all weighted to sort of cover some of the costs this tolls occurred maybe 15 20 years ago or they became more common and and both sides of the

Political equation agreed that action was needed and when you get a toll get new transportation infrastructure so if you pay a toll there’s clearly an improved trip it’s you know it’s a better road it’s a quicker road tolls only last 15 years so after 15 years the

Toll stations come out all the tools are used transponders so there’s no bottlenecks there’s no queues at toll stations toll roads you know they’re just higher quality and the other thing is that you can differentiate toll rates through zero emissions vehicle so you can support the transportation policies that

The country is interested in and there’s there’s a little bit more of a pay for your impacts ethic in Europe and in Norway so you know if you drive on a road you should pay for the road you know that’s not so much the case maybe

In the United States let’s talk a little bit about non motorized transit or travel in Norway so about 25 percent of all trips are on foot it’s it’s a big walking culture they do a lot of hiking too on weekends everything’s closed on Sunday so people go out hiking you can’t

Buy anything but gasoline on Sunday and 5% of all trips aren’t bikes the USA is 12% but this is this number may seem low but you can realize this is in you know northern country with a lot of snow you know cold winter weather and there’s still a pretty high level bike rates

Most Norwegian towns have bicycle and pedestrian facilities this picture down here I clipped out of Google I just went almost randomly and picked a small Norwegian town of a thousand people and sure enough they have a bike in pedestrian route in some of these towns in the winter some of these routes turn

Into cross country ski courses but a lot of times they plow them and they it’s a pretty safe place to be a pedestrian or bicyclist the pedestrian rates about 2 to finalities per million people so the drivers are pretty cognizant of the fact there’s lots of bicycles a lot of

Pedestrians particularly in the urban areas here there there’s a pretty extensive bike and pedestrian infrastructure the picture on the top there is intron time and it’s in a bicycle lift the towns kind of on two levels and you can ride this elevator up to get your bicycle from the lower level

To the upper level bike-share systems like you see here or fairly common the the the biking and walking infrastructure is typically pretty well designed pretty pleasant to use it’s not just a paid pass out in the field so in like I said most urban areas have some sort of infrastructure and what really

Kind of surprised me when I live there is is that people bike all year round you can see this bike share station right next to it is a bike path which has been plowed people are riding bikes on in conditions where I’m really fearful to walk they just have studded

Bike tires the other thing that I’ve noticed is is that they don’t have just isolated bike paths it’s a bike network and you can actually use the bikes system to get to places you know you know I have a bike path that stops and it starts up later it’s a network and

It’s pretty detailed network so the national transportation plan has set aside almost a billion dollars for pedestrian bike infrastructure and their goal is to get that five percent figure up to ten to twenty percent and right now what they’re doing is they’re prioritizing development of ten bike

Express routes in nine major cities so these are high quality broad you know pretty wide separate facilities that are designed for fast travel and functionally they’re kind of commuter links between inner cities and outer suburbs so they’re designed for long distance travel and bikes to get to

Places and and so there’s going to be ten of these going in in the next ten years and speaking of urban areas fuel taxes and funding are the tools used you know I sort of highlighted the national transportation plan but used it sort of local municipal governments to remove

Passionate cars there’s this thing called these urban environmental agreements and there there’s 4.1 billion set-aside where the national government has agreements for local governments where their land-use plans are have to be designed to support zero growth the car so this is one of their ways they’re

Going to get to this goal of no growth of passenger cars in urban areas and so this also funds new transit service as I mentioned the bus rapid transit that’s going in and more light rail there’s already light rail in a couple of the cities and more of it’s going to go in

And if you’re a city are you know the version of a county and you’re putting in a that increases passionate car usage you got to come up with some mitigation to reduce passion car someplace out another element that I I think really supports sustainability that maybe people don’t

Think about is that when I first was going to Norway they had traffic signals just like we have in this country but over the 30 years I’ve been going there almost all the traffic signals are gone and they’ve been replaced with roundabouts and roundabouts you know

Make a lot of sense in many places they’re lower cost put in you don’t have as much maintenance you don’t have to change light bulbs and things like that they cruelly don’t use as much energy and typically they have better throughput and safety and intersections a signalized intersection there’s some

Minor issues of pedestrians walking around but there it’s lower severity accidents another unique aspect in our way which really kind of caught me by surprise is that they have tunnels everywhere there’s over 900 tunnels and I could go there with an older map and

I’d be driving I say oh we got a ferry route no wait a minute it’s the tunnel now so they have these really long and deep tunnels that are some of them go away under the ocean you know 900 meters under sea you know there’s a tunnel up

At the top pitcher that’s almost 16 miles long and that’s not uncommon to have a 9 or 6 – 9 – 10 or 11 mile tunnel to get through some mountains and there they’re busy adding 40 to 50 miles of tunnels per year and they’re also putting tunnels in a number of urban

Areas to get traffic off the streets and you know get it underneath underneath the city so some of the tunnels like to have a roundabouts within the tunnel so they have a pretty I think a pretty notable sustainable impact tunnels are clearly better in mountains you have

Less climbing you don’t have to close the road because you haven’t got the snowplows up there you have less weather impact also you know tunnels if you replace a ferry which you have to run back and forth and use fuel with the tunnel you know there’s there’s less

Impact there and like I indicated that the tunnels are going in underneath the cities for example downtown also the City Hall and the waterfront used to be accepted by this multi Lane Road and they put a tunnel in now it’s a very well used pedestrian Plaza very very pleasant

Because the road traffic is under the city and they’ve done that in a number of other cities and I’m familiar with where though they’ve taken traffic along the waterfront and put it in a tunnel and turn the waterfront into something that’s more amenable to pedestrian and

Bicycle use so just to sort of talk about you know speculate why Norway sustainable and I think a big part of it is their social attitudes they have kind of a history of equality in fairness it’s a very Iguala Galit Aryan society if you work you know in a typical

Workplace the person that runs the place and the lowest level employee they typically get together and eat lunch together each day’s there’s also a lot of history of cooperation among equals Norway used to be a poor country and so it was basically a lot of a lot of small

Farms and these steep shores so they had to be pretty independent because there was it was not easy to get anyplace and so there’s a sort of a culture of self independence and sustainability and it’s also a really spectacular place you know here’s just so I’m showing you some

Pictures through the presentation what it looks like and there’s a real concern about aesthetics in nature in a very outdoors culture there’s a lot of hiking trails and you know boating and things like that so they they spend a lot of time outside I think another reason is

We they have a little different planning attitude than we do in the United States let me try and explain what I think the differences are in Norway planning comes from the top down so there’s a social mandate maybe from the EU or somebody else we’re gonna have lower greenhouse

Gases emissions or we’re gonna try and reduce congestion urban areas and so they’re planning efforts tend to come from the top and the citizens of the country typically trust their governments to do the right thing so they’re much more willing to you know pay tolls you know give the government

That their data because they assume that’s gonna they’re going to be better off you know in contrast I think a lot of the planning the United States is bottom-up and it’s often driven by stakeholder concerns so the planning agencies you know get all the stakeholders involved in stakeholder has

Their own perspective and I think there’s a lot more individual programs and clearly there’s a lot more skepticism of government so you know there’s not a feeling that the government will necessarily do the right thing so you know in our way has these these sort of global mandates and

They’re trying to address them and it gives the planning a little bit different flavor and it makes sustainability maybe a little bit more feasible so kind of in summary well I think why sustainability works in Norway it’s it’s smaller and it’s a little bit more homogeneous society and then like

You know lots of places citizens trust their government to do the right thing so there’s a lot more willing to let the government use the money for sustainability and they’re willing to spend their money to what make life better you know and having oil money helps though I always like to point out

Norway has oil money but Sweden and Denmark and fin mark our Finland are pretty sustainable countries and they’re not they don’t have the oil money and they still do a pretty good job of being sustainable environmental concerns are always on the agenda if you’re going to

Put in some sort of facility a roadway or something aesthetics are pretty high in the list and there’s almost always alternatives to the car built in in that transportation project but you know this country is also a major exporter of oil and user of energy so I think there’s a

Little bit of a guilt conflict because you know they’re pushing oil out to the rest of the world and they’re creating gene greenhouse gases and they’re making the globe maybe a less sustainable place so they’re trying to compensate but I think kind of the bottom line you know

Much from my perspective is that it’s a really gorgeous beautiful scenic country in the inner country the citizens like their country they’re happy with it their interest in keeping it that way and that’s why there’s a lot of support for sustainability so with that I think

We can go to questions all right great thank you and folks again if you have questions you can type them in the chat box locating your webinar toolbar and if possible you could indicate who your question is for that would help me out let’s start with Ryan there were a couple people who

Asked if you could talk a little bit more about what the paper loop is sure so Hyperloop is it’s actually Ian on musk idea it’s a idea that he’s proposed in cities some places are apparently trying to be studies it’s a mass transit program and from what I understand it’s basically

It’s a imagine a very high-speed train in a pressurized tube and the completely enclosed tube that can travel very quickly the mechanics the exact plans behind it you know I mean there’s there’s supposedly fans out there I haven’t looked into it too much because I think it’s mostly

Vapor and hype but it’s an attempt to build a very very high-speed transit system as I understand it there would be little pod car so it wouldn’t exactly be a train so it’s not like that you know a high-speed rail or anything like that it’s more like little pod cars that

Would travel at speed although I’m not completely certain exactly what form it takes them as examples of how its entered the conversation I grew up in Colorado and the I 70 corridor between Denver and the ski slopes can get quite congested particularly in the winter and

There has been cushions off and on to look at doing some sort of transit along that corridor and then a couple of years ago somebody cooks the idea hey we should do a Hyperloop and sort of sucked the air out of the room because I’m procore yeah that’s a great idea and you

Know there’s been a little bit of a Genesis to do something else and once that happens again nothing’s really happening and so it’s sort of I think it distracts people from the real you know and I mean I don’t know what his intentions are with it but I’ve until I

Actually you know they he’s promising that he can build this high-capacity transit system that is super efficient and way cheaper than what governments can build it for and I think that it’s falling into the same trap that the monorail the popular monorail project in Seattle fell victim to ten years ago

Which is that it always seems rosy and easy to say that governments don’t know how to you know build and that there’s always overruns and then when you actually get involved in it you find out that everything is more complicated than you thought and no so so that’s sort of

My take on it but that’s why I threw Hyperloop in there is it’s a it’s one of those projects that people throw out just saying oh it’s going to solve our problems people just be able to get from point A to point B and it’s going to be

Very if it’s high speed it won’t have that many stops so anybody solve a problem it’s not a good mass transit system anyway it’s more of a vanity project for the wrench okay thanks next question interesting when Norway says that it wants to be carbon neutral – they account for the

Carbon impacts of their imports from other countries such as the u.s. or China I don’t think so I think they’re trying to be carbon neutral internally but they’re a fairly major exporter I think at some point like the third largest export of oil so they do have a

Pretty significant impact in other parts of the world which gives them I believe a little bit of a guilt complex which is also why they’re trying to be so sustainable internally so good question and they’re just so you know there were some questions or comments about how you

Know they’re wanting to be so sustainable yet a major export yeah unnoticed and it does not go unnoticed with internally within in our way either so okay thank you next question have electric scooters four on their way to Norway and if so how have they impacted bikeways and sustainable travel there’s

A lot of electric bikes and they are seeing my impression is they’re just pretty well integrated so you’re starting you’re starting to see people who don’t look like bicyclists using electric scooters and electric bikes I haven’t seen any very many of the little scooters because they don’t bikes work

Okay on snow and ice those little electric scooters don’t work so they’re only they’ve could only be used part of the year yeah okay all right a timely question let’s see here in the light of the bridge crash in Italy is Norway planning for infrastructure maintenance for all the

Tunnels like the examples that you’re showing and do they have any money set aside for every mile of tunnel built and yes are they inspected and and if you could just talk a little bit about that sure yeah I didn’t when other some of the elements of the

Transportation plan I didn’t go into is they have a pretty big section to fund technology and they also have a pretty big program to do maintenance that the tunnels are pretty well since Erised they have cameras and all sorts of you know fire sensors and things like that

And there’s a control centers that watch the tunnel so they’re pretty careful about the safety the tunnels are also designed to avoid traveler panic they have different color lights and they have pull outs where people can pull over if they get claustrophobic so there they’ve been doing tunnels for a long

Time and they’re pretty good at maintaining them some of the older tunnels I noticed have had some problems with water seepage and Lake EADS and they’re trying to deal with them but I think they’re pretty much experts on doing tunnels and maintain them so I don’t drive into them and I’m very not

Very worried the infrastructure is high-quality there’s not much beat-up infrastructure so I’ve had very few concerns about maintenance failures and infrastructure failures it’s a it’s a pretty high-quality transportation system all right thank you next question what why do the tolls only last 15 years just policy it just it’s

It makes it more acceptable to that know you know you won’t be having to pay a toll to get the airport for the you know decades you know that some way down the line that roads gonna be a toll free Road so it’s just it I think it just

Makes the tourist tools more palatable great and no session would be complete without an equity question so thanks for typing that in for cities with hot real estate markets can you both of you speak discuss equity how equity is being meaningfully address to avoid displacement of existing low and

Moderate income residents for example the Oakland d-o-t is doing really interesting work with a huge equity focus do you know what cities are leading the way addressing Tod and equity I Ryan you want to take a stab at that yeah that’s I mean that’s a tough question in Seattle right now because

The Seattle is becoming the second San Francisco some of you may be familiar with the outrageous house prices and have heard about that and then of course we also have a very large homelessness crisis and there’s been a very big discussion about you know there’s a perception that many of the people that

Are homeless maybe we’re people that were priced out of the market but grew up here and there’s some debate as to you know how true that is but regardless we have compound problems we have a huge homelessness problem that needs to be addressed and then at the same time we

Have an affordability crisis where there just isn’t any affordable housing Seattle has actually been trying to do something like many cities they’ve implemented sort of incentives to developers to build some low-income housing and you know then they get sort of incentives or credits for being able to do other things that they otherwise

Wouldn’t be able to do there’s been a little bit of criticism because one there’s it’s just not enough I mean we have way more needs than there is supply and – there’s a lot of programs for people who are very low-income but then there’s sort of a big hole in the middle

Where if you have a you know a reasonable job you know you’re really poor you know let me say you’re a schoolteacher or a firefighter or a police officer or something and so you have income but it’s not a super high paying job but you’re above the thresholds that would qualify for

Low-income housing assistance but and and so you’re sort of left out in the cold and people are moving farther and farther away from the city and there’s really nothing being done in the Seattle region and I am aware of to address that big gap in the middle and other cities I’m

Not actually aware of I mean this is something I’ve been looking into often on I know that some cities have had better luck doing some programs related to this a lot of it I mean there’s some opportunities in the Rust Belt in places where populations used to be larger and then

They declined in the you know billion the decline of the industrial sector in the late in the later half of last century and so they actually have the capacity in there some of their systems in there their networks to support some growth so there’s an opportunities there

Whereas other cities on the west coast that you know Seattle is growing at a breakneck pace there’s it’s limited we have a lot of housing opened up this year more apartments have opened up in the last couple of years than the last 50 years combined there is a massive

Growth because they finally recognized that there really was a shortfall that helped a little bit but it really hasn’t done anything about the affordability crisis that we’re seeing the same problems and you know whether it’s Portland’s Denver you know obviously San Francisco New York City obviously they

May have some challenges but with rent controllers in New York that’s something that rent control is controversial but it is a proven way to let to help people be able to stay where they are and that wouldn’t fly in a lot of places but it

Still does help in New York I don’t know if you have anything to add to that boy well let me let me throw out a little bit of my perspective from Norway I got to be a little careful here because I’m an engineer not necessary social welfare

System but it is a social welfare democracy so there’s many fewer homeless people and they I also have noticed that equity concerns are kind of imbued in most transportation plans so if like I said you know if you put in a toll they’re very careful to put in an

Alternative that ways to use the if you could have put in a toll make it more expensive to travel there’s also going to be bus service on a bike route sort of put in in adjacent to that to make sure that people out the income use of

Tolls can still get to where they want to get and go so I you know it’s just it’s a smaller place it’s a more egalitarian place there’s a lot more social welfare resources so there’s sort of a little bit less of an equity concern yeah you know I don’t know

I hardly see any homeless people in our wake because they there’s funny to get him off the street so there’s a difference there so yeah I’m actually I might add back to that ad having lived in Sweden and been back to visit I haven’t been back in a few years

But Sweden of course is a very big social welfare state as well and when I lived there ten years ago I didn’t see very many homeless people at all when I was back there four or five years ago I was actually really surprised to see that there were people begging in front

Of most of the supermarket’s that I saw and they were almost universally East European and so I don’t know if that’s a difference that big in Sweden because it Sweden is part of the EU they’re not part of the financial unions they’re not on the euro but they are formerly part

Of the European Union and that makes it you know possibly easier you know they’re more open to some border crossings and things like that as I know that that’s something that Sweden has had to deal with it was more noticeable but I still am not aware of any high

Degree of homelessness in Sweden just because of the resources that they have that they’ve dedicated to social welfare but it was a change that I noticed from you know 10 13 years ago when I lived there you okay thank you next question is there a major difference between average miles

Driven per year per vehicle between Norway and the US I don’t know if you’ve ever heard this saying that in Europe 100 miles is a long way and 100 years is a short time in United States a hundred miles as a short distance in the hundred

Years is a long time so the trips are very much shorter in Europe so yeah there is I don’t know the statistics but the trip it’s just it’s just a more compact place of the trips tend to be a little lower in our way I think there’s there’s one road where you could

Probably get up to 70 miles an hour outside of Oslo than the rest of the country it’s just a really slow travel because it’s winding roads and the speed and it’s not that high for safety so it’s just hard to call long distance so so yes that’s there is a difference

And since we’re comparing I guess let’s compare auto ownership rates between Norway and the US do you have a handle on that okay this is just just just from personal experience most families tend to have two cars are a lot of well okay auto ownership rate I know is lower so

There’s a lot of better alternatives so you know I know a lot of people have one car but if they do have two cars increasingly there’s the bigger car that’s a fossil fuel vehicle people use to go to their cabins you know a longer distance and they also have an electric

Car tool around car in town but yeah car ownership rates are lower because there’s just better alternatives for getting around and I just looked real quick on 9 and the Norwegian national travel survey in 2013 20 or 2014 so that the average person took 3.26 / trips per

Day the average trip was fourteen and a half kilometers and the average person traveled a total of forty seven point two nominees each day so I guess I’d have to do the math real quick and they don’t specify I think that’s all modes so I said it isn’t just driving but I

Mean forty seven point two kilometers times 365 days and I don’t know if that’s a typical week workday or not but yeah we’re talking 17,000 kilometers if that’s every day of the year so it’s definitely it’s at least 2/3 or at least 60% so iteration say at least 33% less

Than the US and if that’s all modes then it’s even lower it might only be 50% if what’s done in the US the average in the US is about 15,000 miles per year yeah thanks right I mean I just from personal experience I have I live in

Seattle I have 3 cars my household in Norway we had we didn’t have a car it was really easy to get around yeah and that was my experience in Sweden when my wife mind up there we didn’t have a car we lived there for two

Years and it was great so yeah and I just thought of something you were mentioning something and it clicked in in Norway what do the work weeks and school weeks look like are they five days are they four days because you know that also a big difference particularly with you know childcare and

School buses or you know our families our work weeks and school weeks kind of how does all that look well so when I worked there for their version of the you know usdot my work day started at 8:00 we got together in the middle of morning for coffee and we had 45 minutes

Where we ate lunch we went home at 3:30 and I had seven or eight weeks of your vacation so they’re not there as much and the workdays typically shorter a lot of places have winter hours like I worked in another place where we work till 4:00 in the winter in the summer we

Went home at 3:30 and most people in August nothing’s around so they have much lower work hours than here and then the thing is there’s daycares everywhere and they’re free are there low-cost so it’s pretty easy to put your your kid in a daycare until they go to school and schools free and

College is free so you know so you know there is some if you have a family and kids there is some juggling but it’s it’s much simpler than typically is here and I guess the other thing I noticed is that very young children you’d see five

Or six year olds getting on the bus by themselves at least where I lived so you know at some point there was there’s there’s a greater quicker level of Transportation independence which certain it takes a little bit of the burden off the parents too so it’s it’s

Very different they’re much more if it’s just one work-life balance sure and there were a couple folks actually that commented about the social side of sustainability and how you know the importance of it and how it does play a large role in and other in other countries and there was one person who

Made a comment I heard you mention that Norwegians love their country and are very happy could this be an underlying issue in the US with moving sustainable transit forward that people aren’t perhaps as happy or they have less trust in our government which on some level is

A loaded question so you don’t have to comment on that but just that you know that the point is just socially how how people interact and you know how lifestyles are makes a big impact yeah and in ranking probably coming in this but I think part of it is its kind of

It’s a small homogeneous place where the government takes care of you and it’s a beautiful place and you know so you know in some ways what’s not to like and I do hear people complain that you know if you want to become Bill Gates or you know Jeff Bezos it’s much harder to

Do in Norway you know but that doesn’t seem to bother a lot of people so yeah it’s a little bit of a hard question to answer I just my my impression you know having lived in Norway and talking a lot of Norwegians as they like the country

And it kind of fits what what the survey say power pipe up as well I mean it gets a similar experience when I lived in Sweden they are and they may be slightly more skeptical than the Norwegians are but if they are there’s not very much

Straw but there’s a lot of trust in the government and doing the right thing and so it’s a lot easier for them to do things whereas here in the US a lot of times we’ve seen this many times it actually seems to be increasing with the current political climate just the you

Know sort of back and forth that we we go to public meetings for small projects and there’s a strident opposition to you know like worry we’re like we’re working on a bus rapid transit project is south of Seattle and my colleagues went to a public meeting down there and you know

There are people that come up that are supportive and then but the people who are opposed to converting one or two lanes of a four-lane underutilized Road into bus access lanes where you can still be used they’re battling so bus and local access and the opposition was

Amazing and we’re just seeing this all over the place and as might be an indication of distrust or whatever but it is remarkable the difference between the two and when you encounter that and there’s nothing you can do to when people have these views you know you

Listen to them you try to you try to make sure that they’re heard but at the end of the day fundamentally you can’t it’s hard to engage and actually try to do anything because nothing you do is right they just don’t want anything to happen

Okay thank you um I forget which one of you spoke about it but there was a discussion either Norway or Sweden for moving Freight to rail from I assume from trucks trucking highways yeah um could you talk more about that yeah that was me so so in in Norway and I

Think a lot of Europe the rail system carries people which forces a lot more Freight on the road so there’s actually more trucks on the road and at least Norway for sure than in the United States where a lot of freight goes on long you know the long mile-long trains

Across the country so the Norwegians have recognized that and they’re gonna try and make their rail network a little more robust so they can get some more trucks off the road and also that being a you know having 16 thousand miles of coastline there’s not many places very

Far from the coast of they have a history of using coastal expressions to move stuff around before the road network is developed and so they just recognize that’s an opportunity to get trucks off the road and onto rail and onto ships and so they’re they’re trying

To do that I should point out you know as part of this there’s a peninsula in sort of southern Norway which sticks out you know two or three miles and forces a lot of ships to go out around this peninsula the water is really rough and

Choppy it’s known as a hazardous spot so they’re gonna solve that problem with the tunnel they’re gonna make a tunnel through this thing called the stad this peninsula which is gonna be big enough for a cruise ship to go through and most places I’d look at that and kind of

Laugh like oh great yeah that’s not likely but I suspect as how they’ll make a tunnel big enough for a ship to go through so it doesn’t have to go around this peninsula and that’s that’s part of their that’s in the transportation plan that’s part of the effort to make

Coastal shipping a little more feasible so yeah it’s it’s it seems like a reasonable plan okay thanks Ryan a couple people typed in a question similar to this can you expand on the concept of potential the potential value of autonomous vehicles for the first and

Last mile and if you could talk a little bit about what what the first last mile concept is sure so one of the major problems with the mass transit systems is that you know they really effectively work by connecting to you know people already have to be selected

At the stations and then they can you know ride the most effective form of forms of mass transit into the city so whether it’s you know sort of a commuter rail or light rail or high-speed rail or anything like that those stations are few and far between because obviously to

Be effective and efficient that you can’t have too many stars so then it’s really important to have bus lines or other systems that is connects to those stations but then even as importantly as that as you know if people they even if they live close to the station if they

Live you know one or two miles away a lot of people currently don’t walk that far or bike that far well and it’s I’m not sure whether it’s a complete reluctance to do so unawareness or people are just used to driving people used to have in free

Parking you know a lot of people want parking lots and all the stations and things like that and so using autonomous vehicles there was that sort of the problem with the last the first mass miles is if you have somebody that lives relatively close to the station but

Maybe a little bit further than they would feel comfortable walking and maybe you know maybe it’s as simple as providing a bike lane or a nice protected bike facility and they would just bike it but trying to find these ways to connect people to the station so

That then they can ride transit because that’s what not stops a lot of people combining transit is if they lived right next to the station maybe they do it but because they live a little bit away there’s no place to park and so they they aren’t thinking about walking or

Doing anything else since they just sort of there’s a mountain going by be right there I’m so now it’s 5:00 and so you know there’s it’s hard and they just don’t do it and so by providing person a smile solutions you’re making it easier for people to connect to transit and

Autonomous vehicles can play a role there because that’s a really good space to you know it’s something that’s inefficient for transit vehicles because you’re talking about short routes and maybe not that many people but an autonomous vehicle could pick up a number of people get them to the station doesn’t

Have to park it could drop the person off and then go off and pick somebody else up in another nearby house so that in my mind is actually one of the chief benefits where you’re really using autonomous vehicles for what they would be really well designed for whereas

Trying to use autonomous vehicles to replace mass transit to me doesn’t make sense because we just don’t have that capacity on our roads today and I even with the efficiency gains of autonomous vehicles in terms of returning them together more closely together you’re not going to increase the road could has

To be by that much so they I think they have a better role to play in those first and a smile solutions thank you how do Norwegian communities deal with the growth in e-commerce they have already have a pretty robust locker system so when I live there my

Packages did not come to my house they came to my local grocery store and there’s lots of little grocery stores so on my way home from work I just stopped by the grocery store you know or later at night I just hop by the grocery store

And get it so in some ways they have a pretty good system already lockers help ecommerce quite a bit and I have noticed that they have been expanding their delivery systems they’re their version of the post office so and by the way the postal vehicles are typically hybrid or

National natural gas powered so just as if it was sustainably but you know and like like every other country there some concerns about you know trying to get packages from from the truck into the office building a household that the locker system helps you know we don’t

Have nearest is a evolved locker system in this country as they do over there okay thank you next question can both of you talk a little more about the link between sustainable transportation and air quality while the tailpipe for electric vehicles may be moving from the road to the powerplant for renewable source

Aren’t electric vehicles providing a significant health-related benefit as no emissions for our cyclists and pedestrians yeah I’ll take the first crack of that um yeah definitely I mean if their price was purely between having an electric fleet of vehicles but still having emissions and power plants if it had to

Be you say something that’s still polluted I would still say that that’s an improvement just because you’re moving to a way smaller number of point sources of pollution instead of having a bunch of non-point sources you know that you know millions of vehicles out there polluting now you can find it too

However many power plants that are if everybody was electric and then of course it gets even better if you have renewable forms of energy that are generating that electricity so yes definitely it still is better than the alternative of gasoline-powered vehicles but I still like to highlight to people

That it’s an improvement but electric vehicles don’t fix all the problems because they also there’s a pretty significant environmental cost remaining the lithium the lithium right now is coming from countries that don’t necessarily have the best safety standards so workers sometimes are injured and so there are still environmental costs that are associated

With that and there’s been a huge demand in lithium because of electric vehicles and other things and it’s limited mostly to I believe a lot of it comes from some of it comes from China and a lot of it I think comes from Venezuela or it’s somewhere in South America and I’m

Trying to remember who is Venezuela or Colombia but so there’s still are environmental concerns with how you get it but it’s still better than you know where we are today yeah I mean it’s really simply state it in one of the classes we look at the we assess the

Lifecycle cost of a electric car in the East Coast where a lot of the power comes from a coal-fired power plant on the here in Washington where a lot of the power comes from a dam and there’s a big difference so you know point-source matters as Ryan points out you

Okay I think well we’ll do one last question and we get this one every now and again when you know sustainable vehicles and the topic of electric vehicles come up do you have a sense of what the volume of energy usage is for petroleum driven vehicles versus

Electric vehicles it seems to me that plugging in a car uses as much energy as you would putting in several gallons of gas plus the batteries from electric vehicles are increasing in trash can you talk a little bit about what the advantages of electric vehicles is the

Carbon footprint really lower than a gas powered vehicle so you know that’s a question of energy efficiency Ryan do you you have a handle on that I mean I know that I haven’t found a smoking gun report on this yet I really am hoping that somebody really tackle to tackle

This in a really sort of academic way and really investigates it because it is a fair question I mean they said it you know because there’s a lot of caveats like we mentioned of course if that energy is coming from you know hydro or something like that then it’s obviously

Great but if it’s coming from cold and yeah you know there are questions in distribution systems you know you have to build all those electric charging stations but then you know to be fair you should also count the cost of you know what it takes all the time to ship

Those tankers of gasoline over to the gas stations to fill their tanks so people can tank up and at one point those gas stations had to be built so I don’t know of anything off the top of my head but I think it would be really interesting research to do a really deep

Lifecycle analysis of between the two but again you know where you are matters because I think one of the biggest components will be where the energy sources for recharging and they’d like to sort of you know in our sustainable transportation program we talk a fair amount about lifecycle

Assessment or analysis because it’s a much more complete wave looking impact its kind of cradle to grave and I know the Eno Foundation has recently published some reports sort of supporting life cycle assessment for the transportation system so you know if this is something you’re interested and

Encouraged you to look it up because it’s just you know it’s a much more thorough way of looking at impacts because you look at everything from the cost of raw materials to go into a system to you know the the externalities and the inputs as well as the cost to

Scrap a system so it’s just a more thorough way to look at it I think somebody would be like Ryan said it would be great to do a lifecycle assessment of different kinds of you know electric car and gas car diesel car and hybrid car and things like that

Hopefully someday somebody will do that yeah and I guess one thing I’d add to that real quick is with that just cross my mind – is it also depends on when because you know 10 years ago when electric cars were brand new the extraction costs and you know battery

Technology was quite different and it was much more expensive to manufacture those batteries but as as a vehicle production has increased then you start to get economies of scale when you know there’s larger orders as more people doing it’s more competition more people get in the game and so like the costs

For extraction I mean except that our environment the costs for getting lithium maybe we’ll find better battery technologies in the near future but it still is getting better than it was and but I don’t know how it compares so you know if you did that study now it would

Definitely look different than if it had been done 10 years ago all right um I think we’re gonna go ahead and close up shop so ed McCormick and Ryan Avery thanks for joining us today this topic transportation planning division for sponsoring today’s webcast again we’re gonna have the these part

This presentation we’ll have it as a PDF on our web cast web page Ohio planning that org slash plan webcast and we’ll also get a recording of this up on our YouTube channel just search planning webcast on YouTube so again ed and Ryan thank you so much

And everyone hey have a great weekend thank you you

ID: zALC8ec3j48
Time: 1534883449
Date: 2018-08-22 01:00:49
Duration: 01:26:30

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