Title:برنامه ریزی شیکاگو – مصاحبه با نویسندگان Jon DeVries، AICP و D. Bradford Hunt

نویسندگان Jon B. DeVries و D. Bradford Hunt درباره کتاب برنامه ریزی شیکاگو بحث می کنند. موجود در انجمن برنامه ریزی آمریکا در plan.org/store

قسمتي از متن فيلم: Chicago has a great legacy of planning dating back to 1909 with the burnham plan but authors brad hunt and john devries write that chicago’s not planning well for the future their book planning chicago published by apa’s planners press examines what has worked for the city and where the city is currently falling

Short in terms of planning for its future i’m roberta ruiz with the american planning association joining me today is d bradford hunt dean of the evelyn t stone college of professional studies and vice provost for adult and experiential learning at roosevelt university and john devries director of the marshall bennett institute of real

Estate at roosevelt university thank you both for joining me today thank you thank you in your book you write that chicago is not planning well for its future or with confidence you mentioned that a lot confidence what do you see as the immediate and long-term effects for not planning well

Well i think one of the things we’re seeing is a lot of announcements about one-off projects and i think the public is starting to ask the same question we as planners are asking is and what’s the relationship of this project to this project and i think that there’s

There’s some credibility in a time some credibility issues in the time of scarce resources are we using our resources wisely are we using them strategically and without a plan it’s hard to see how some of these projects tie together and we lack a long-term vision we had

Visions in the past because we planned well we said we’re going to defend downtown we said we’re going to protect transit now we didn’t had a lot of goals and right now it’s not clear what the direction for the city is and we’re facing major challenges where

Uh neighborhoods are feeling left out of the boom of the last decade uh where there our fiscal challenges are significant because we’re not doing wise capital budgeting because we don’t have a plan what is the dangerous you mentioned one-off projects i’m thinking you mean like the chicago river plan

What are the dangers of doing the one-off projects because those are short easy wins right yeah as opposed to let’s sit down and really rack our brains about this and say this is what we need the city to be well i i think there’s a couple of dangers um

Some of the national business press has been talking about chicago as an investment market and i one of the nationally publicized surveys this week had 15 american cities ranked and i think we came in 13 and the and the consensus was there’s not a lot of predictability uh when developers think about coming

Here they’re not sure what it’s going to take or how long it’s going to take to get a project approved they’re not sure what other kind of projects are going to be built around them or not built around them so i think that i think we i think we lose some level of

Investor interest there’s no question about that i think the the other danger of the one-off projects is as a great quote we’ve got in the book from lawrence masala who’s the head of the civic federation here they’re kind of a watchdog of government and lawrence i

Said in the book to us we had a nice interview with him one of the great things planning does is it protects against corruption and uh and i think there is a temptation uh with one-off things and this uh and and as we talk about very disparate funding sources 150 different

Tiff funds and so on i think there is a temptation when i’m not sitting here making particular accusations but i think there’s a temptation there’s a temptation for abuse and or even bad decisions or just or just on a more simpler level bad decisions not well thought through ideas somebody has

A random idea i heard about an idea the other day for a two million dollar tif project for a tennis complex on the former side of the robber taylor holmes oh yeah and i thought okay that might be a good idea that might be a bad idea who

Knows but without a plan without some sense of what that area is going to be and without some sense of prioritization or criteria or it’s just a matter of clout politics whether somebody can be convinced on any given day whether the mayor likes it and so those nests are

The best way to rationally plan that’s not kind of good government we need in chicago now here’s a question we have the chicago metropolitan agency for planning they kind of oversee the region several counties why is it important for chicago to still plan isn’t chicago included in that

Regional plan doesn’t that cover chicago do we need to is in essence two plans well um i think it’s important to remember c-map’s a fairly recent creation um i think it’s been in existence now five or six years it resulted from the combination of the old chicago area transportation study which was

Funded heavily by the illinois department of transportation to do regional systems transportation system planning and a smaller agency northern nipsey northern illinois planning commission and the idea was let’s put land planning and regional transportation planning together and and i think that merger has been largely a success but their primary missions is still

These regional transportation kind of things the kind of projects across county borders so i think that’s that’s their forte and i know some of their staff came to one of our first presentations on the book and said you know we’d love to have the city be able to be a stronger planning

Partner with us we can handle this higher level stuff this regional stuff is particularly the large transportation stuff but the fine grain things that we really need city collaboration on we really need the city to be a partner and i think that’s really what we’re talking about cmap’s done a terrific job

With smaller communities that don’t have a lot of planning capacity and aiding them and doing some of the grants the same grants they do for the small cities but we’re a city of 2.7 million we need a planning department we need to plan we can’t rely on some larger regional body

To think through all the difficult challenges of a city of 2.7 million and you say a city of 2.7 million that’s including a lot of the neighborhoods so i’m thinking that if you know the focus is chicago you think of the loop the downtown area but you’ve also got to factor in

All of these neighborhoods you mentioned one of the calls to action you have in planning chicago is saying increasing transit capacity and i’m sure that means getting people in and out of the city but also between neighborhoods and that sort of thing we’ve got a few bus rapid transit areas

Sections that are going on is that answering the need you know we’ve got the divi bikes now yeah well the bus rapid transit technology is going to be new to chicago it’s not new uh worldwide it’s been used successfully in some other cities i would say that if

We were starting table rasa and we didn’t have a transit system we were a medium-sized city the brt would represent some kind of advance i would say as two small segments that we’re putting into already a massive mature system it’s questionable that it can have any meaningful level of impact on capacity

Yeah we like transit but it the city has not made the major investments that other cities have done uh in their transit network like if you’ve other cities have planned well like minneapolis st paul a lot of new light rail going in and then collaborating with landowners around the

Train stations they’re doing a whole new generation of housing mixed-use projects in those neighborhoods around around around transit yeah denver same thing denver’s doing a very good job los angeles is digging tunnels and i mean it’s very expensive but they’ve been able to win federal money in part

Because they’ve planned well in part because they’ve been aggressive about expanding their transit capacity and we’ve the cta is trying to hold on to what it’s got it’s doing the best it can but without a with a stronger vision and a stronger plan uh mayor richard m daley

And mayor rahm emanuel could go to washington perhaps have a better shot at these federal funds and these partnerships to do the kind of transit expansion that we need between neighborhoods and also to continue to serve the loop which will continue to be the primary economic engine right now we’re at capacity on

Several lines we need to expand office space in the west loop yet transit’s kind of thin there we still haven’t solved the problem between the two major train stations there are good plans out there good ideas out there but without a comprehensive framework we haven’t been able to take advantage of that

Some of the good planning that has been done okay and the census has shown that chicago is losing population what populations do we need to attract to the city what do we need to do in the neighborhoods it’s this is the big challenge chicago lost 180 000 african americans in the

Last decade and lost a total of 200 000 people and uh that’s it and it’s not doing as badly as other cities so in that big a population base we’re going to be okay but several neighborhoods are really thinning out in ways that is is negative

Um in the past we have been much more successful in other cities in attracting immigrants from latin america and asia and those have been really important to sustaining all sorts of neighborhoods that otherwise would also have depopulated and when you have immigrants coming in you have the tax base you can

Continue to function well as a city where are they going to come from i think that’s that’s a major challenge we need to focus on how we can attract people to chicago and particularly attract people to neighborhoods that might not otherwise be on on the top of their list and see

That as an opportunity uh and that’s going to be a real challenge in several parts of the city but we’ve got to focus on it and we don’t have a plan for it and i think one of the things that’s been that’s been widely observed is

Uh we’re doing a great job with our undergraduate and graduate colleges and attracting students here and keeping them in town and they they like to they like the bars they like the lifestyle they like each other and and we love having them and then they uh get married and they look across the

Breakfast table and they say and we’re having our first child and are we going to stay in the city and it’s that middle age that from the younger the middle-aged family group so retention’s got to be part of the story too and then that gets back to

That the really tough problem of how you how you do that combination of neighborhood and school improvements that make people feel like these these are a safe productive place to send their children and that’s that’s got to be that’s got to be one of the core challenges attracting families and

Keeping families right and the schools are going to be essential in that uh yeah declining birth rate yeah yeah got to do something get the people in there yeah you know in september they announced whole foods is going into englewood is that a baby step solution to fixing you

Know attracting people into the neighborhoods that sort of thing well i was driving down the highway when i heard that announcement and i have to tell you i i kind of did it i sucked my breath in when i when i heard it it kind of took my breath away

As a and and i just said um gosh this this is we love anyone who wants to think about investing in in englewood and neighborhoods like it but is this the right match and is this another one-off deal is this saying if you’re going to

Do business in chicago you got to put a store there and i think that um or or is it part of this is is it part of a plan for englewood this is one of a number of amenities that have to happen and then i think there’s the other question of

Is this the best store for the demographics of the area and has did anyone really do a thoughtful understanding of of the i know the city has just completed a citywide retail analysis did anyone consult that about the kind of demographics that this area had uh before they said this is the

Particular store that’s going to go there it’s a big leap you know the detroit store is near wayne state university right universities have fairly close to the central business and not that far from the central business this is in englewood 63rd and halston now i’m sure there’s going to be i’m

Sure and the whole foods people took a look at the numbers and somehow think it’s going to work and they and whole foods is adapted in den in detroit okay they have some lower priced produce and things i hope it works i hope that it attracts new investment and

And it did it did attract some new investment in detroit it does strike me as wow i had the same reaction reactions john whoa i could name a half a dozen other neighborhoods where i think it might have a stronger chance of success all of which are low-income underserved communities yeah

And then you also have to think about there have been some of the smaller chains ethnic chains have done very well here and i think we should be encouraging them to go into some of those neighborhoods as pepes there’s several smaller chains all these has come in and i think done an extremely

Good job of locating a lot of places the traditional grocery stores didn’t mariano’s has come in with a fun interesting combination they have this nice customized food to go kind of operation almost a deli kind of thing but combined that with with kind of value very value-priced groceries roundies and

Stuff so there might have been some other storage choices that might have been a little bit better match there but we we wish them luck it’ll be a nice experiment if you will i kind of looked at it like oh is this maybe what the starbucks was back in the

۹۰s like this neighborhood is you know going to get better and and help out i don’t know yeah there was always that if if you were able to get the starbucks you kind of made it there was that kind of panache to it remember right yeah yeah

Chicago is one of the unique rust belt cities that hasn’t suffered the fate of detroit or cleveland or st louis we had a strong plan up until i believe it was the 1966 plan that might have prevented this are we in jeopardy of kind of backsliding and

I don’t want to say necessarily becoming exactly like detroit but suffering is some of the similar fates that detroit or some of these rust belt cities are still grappling with today well i you know chicago has such a locational advantage um you know we have uh

We’re at the core of the country we have all the major railroads across here and have have for the past century the six major trunk lines all come here um and we’re the crossroads of the midwest expressway system so to some extent we kind of get by

On on a locational advantage i think the question is also in some ways we’re always going to be a little competitively stronger than uh detroit or some of these other midwestern cities we have such a such a huge geographical advantage but um i think the question is can we can we

Grow beyond that can we go beyond just relying on on this gift that we have and and i think that there are lessons to be learned from some of these other cities i think one of our colleagues les pollock has put this list together of other cities that have done planning

Since 2000 and i think we’re we’re one of a few that hasn’t been doing some serious long-range planning so i think we’ve got to think about can the tourism sector be be grown more than it is can the whole mccormick district become more than it is for example tourism is going

To be part of our future we’re doing great with educational institutions can we do more things to encourage that um we are not the international headquarters city we were but we are still the center of a lot of regional business and um we want to keep this business

Core this this this wonderful central area strong so i think there’s a lot of things we need we’re going to have to be proactive i don’t think we risk the fate of becoming a detroit but i think we sometimes risk the fate of resting on our laurels a little bit resting on just

Some of our built-in locational advantages and and just sheer size we got to do better than that yeah yeah we think we built millennium park so we’re done the whole city is kind of done isn’t it beautiful that was a long range set of planning that got us to that

Point yeah that started in the 50 in 1958 and 1966 in 1973 and said we’re going to bring people downtown we’re going to grow a 24 7 central area and it’s worked it’s terrific it’s fabulous now the neighborhoods was a bigger challenge we don’t have great answers

For that we have some answers though that we need to pursue like some of the work of the local initiative support corporation which has done really interesting neighborhood planning in a program called the new communities program and so the things we can do but we need to to have a more focused

Comprehensive plan that looks the entire city that everyone can buy into so that we know okay we want to sustain these strengths we want to grow in these areas we want to attract new populations we want to have a first-class transit system we want to have you know industrial corridors that are

Going to be vibrant and provide employment i mean right now people don’t see a direction they kind of see lurching and they kind of think well gosh you know what what’s next and there isn’t really that uh they they hear about fiscal crises we the way out of that is to say look

Let’s let’s we’ll go and move in a direction it doesn’t it’s not going to solve everything planning is one tool of many but without that it seems like the press release of the day and it’s kind of a lot of randomness not focus i think another another thing we

Could leverage a lot more and i know i heard chris kennedy spock speak about this last week and that is we’ve got such a great asset here with our research universities and argonne and northwestern chicago and and we should be really trying to leverage that i think a lot more than we

Have i mean there’s just so many things that can be done um but that’s another core competency that we have that we really could grow i think a lot more yeah so here’s the question i know you guys put a lot of blood sweat and tears in

This would you do it all over again and ride it again of course there wasn’t blood was there i hope not no absolutely and uh it was it it was terrific project to think about this long range this broader picture of chicago to think about just the city not

Necessarily the region the region would have then sprawled if the book had gone in that direction and and to really think about the state of planning and how the american planning association through works like ours can advance the state of planning can advance the agenda of planning which

Is a good one and which the city has not been focused on when you don’t have a department with the name planning in it you’re not signaling to people that it matters yeah well apa should be commended i know that you started with the planning los angeles book

We’ve been we were lucky enough to get lambda alpha to kind of help us here too with some resources and i know lambda and apa are teaming to do the next one i think planning atlanta and those folks have all been in touch with us too they’ve been excited about this so i

Think this is turning into a little bit of a picture of planning around the country which i think is a nice byproduct profile of it yeah what would you say surprised you or you didn’t know when you started delving into your research and writing the book

Well i don’t know i didn’t know if this guy would be a good partner you know and you know and what i’ve what we ended up concluding i think very shortly was that uh two plus two in our particular case uh made ten because he he brought this great granular understanding of

Chicago’s history and i brought uh i i think a passion and a lifelong of experience with planning and i think it was a great a great matchmaking there was a lot of synergy and that was really positive for the book it wouldn’t i could never have

Written it by myself and john could have written it by himself and so that’s ideal yeah and that’s why you you form partnerships like this yeah anything else no i think this is uh it’s been a great adventure we hope uh we hear at least that

That this is being consulted in some of the classrooms around the country so we’re hoping we hope we inspire the next generation of planners to do even better than than we did and it’s also inspired the chicago tribune in part to run a series about chicago’s future and about planning and

We’ve been able to talk to groups around the city all sorts of civic groups who are starting to get the message and understand that yeah wow they they haven’t thought about planning as a part of their own worlds whether it’s the chicago community trust or maybe the landmarks illinois and mars illinois

Yeah they want to be part of a plan they realize that we need some stronger vision and that as a way out of some of the fiscal and other challenges we face and everyone’s a part of it well i’d like to thank you both very much thank you and planning

Chicago is available at apa’s website through our bookstore

ID: L2f0cOAy9x0
Time: 1390844811
Date: 2014-01-27 21:16:51
Duration: 00:21:44

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