Title:برنامه ریزی با رسانه های اجتماعی – ابزار یا تروما

۰۲-۰۱-۲۰۱۱ ارائه دهندگان: جودیت بی. دوورز، کریس مک گتریک این وب کست فقط برای مشاهده در دسترس است، برای اعتبارات AICP CM قابل استفاده نیست اینترنت سهولت جدیدی را در ارتباطات و تعامل شهروندان فراهم کرده است. این ورودی شهروندان از طریق اینترنت و به طور خاص از طریق ایمیل، وبلاگ ها، وب سایت های تعاملی، U Tube، My Space، فیس بوک و اکنون توییتر تحقق یافته است. تلفن های همراه اکثر مردم اکنون ابزار قدرتمندی برای برقراری ارتباط با یکدیگر هستند. با این حال، مقدار اطلاعاتی که از طریق این ابزارها به صورت روزانه منتشر می شود تا حدودی طاقت فرسا است و به نظر می رسد دستیابی به آن سخت باشد. مردم روزمره در مورد مسائل سیاسی و برنامه ریزی به صورت الکترونیکی بحث می کنند و در مورد آینده خود نه بر اساس اقدامات شورای شهر یا کمیسیون شهرستان بلکه بر اساس آنچه با یکدیگر صحبت می کنند تصمیم می گیرند. این جریان اطلاعات سریعتر از بسیاری از دولت ها در حال حرکت است. بنابراین، چگونه برنامه‌ریزان می‌توانند از این ابزارهای قدرتمند برای کمک به جوامع برای برنامه‌ریزی آینده خود و حفظ نوعی کنترل بر داده‌های ارائه شده در نتیجه استفاده از این ابزارها استفاده کنند؟ به عبارت دیگر، چگونه می‌توانیم جلوتر از این قدرت شهروندی جدید باشیم و از آن برای ارتقا و برنامه‌ریزی جوامع پایدار استفاده کنیم.

قسمتي از متن فيلم: People with best practices emerging trends and leading thinkers in stakeholder engagement through an array of distinctive online programs her experience includes a range of public nonprofit and private sector projects over the past 25 years including more than a dozen years designing facilitating and implementing participatory processes for land use transportation and environmental

Projects she’s one of a small number of public engagement practitioners who are converted in the use of both web 20 social media and web 30 immersive technologies Beth also conducts public engagement research and engagement projects in the fields of transportation land use environment and health at Virginia Tech where she is a

Postdoctoral associate since 2008 she has chaired the american planning association international division and she’s played a leadership role in the creation of the divisions to award-winning professional development programs she’s also one of the co-founders and I will really need to say the person that got this going of

Our public engagement interest group our second speaker will be Judith Dover’s she’s program manager for the community outreach for the comprehensive plan department at the Atlanta Regional Commission in Atlanta Georgia she joined a RC in 1989 and is responsible for outreach education communication and coordination with the public regarding planning activities including the

Regional transportation plan and regional land development plan she serves on the public involvement committee for transportation research board the Editorial Board of the international journal of public participation the advisory board of the forming APA Public Engagement interest group she was one of the three or four

Of us that helped develop that and she serves on the nchrp panel on environmental justice best practices Judith has also been involved in a variety of community services planning activities in such areas as ethnic diversity community visioning strategic planning committee community health human services planning homelessness Riveter corridor history grandparents

Raising grandchildren she has a particular interest in how to expand audience participation in planning activities through social media visualization and small group community discussions and with that I’m going to turn it over to Beth offenbacher to give our first presentation thanks so much Chris and Jennifer I’m really excited to

Be here today to talk about social media as part of engaging people in planning decisions and projects just really briefly some of the things I’m going to cover today in my chalk and going to talk about the context in the uses of social media and highlight some different examples that whether or not

You’re using social media I hope will excite you to explore some new directions for how you can use it as part of your stakeholder engagement activities I’m going to touch on the cost benefits and trade-offs throughout my talk and and also spend a few minutes

On that later on and I’ll wrap up by offering some key questions to think about as you consider the range of things that you can do using social media in your engagement work so just to touch on briefly as you can see here from this list there is an almost

Impossible array of social media tools that we can use in our work today I find it really hard to keep up with myself and I really try to follow this this part of Technology so I’m sure that many of you are using some of these tools a

Few of you may be curious and thinking about it Daphne now I’d like to start out before I get into some of the example and ask who among our group are using social media today as part of stakeholder engagement so I think Jennifer is brought the poll up on the

Screen so if you could take a minute to to register your response that would be terrific so we’ll just pause here for a moment and see what that looks responses are we’ve got about half the responses in so far so we’ll give everybody a few more seconds to go ahead and

And get their votes in and then I will go ahead and close the poll in just a moment thank you imagine okay we’re going to go ahead and close the poll okay and so here are the results of the poll but you can see that about a third

Of the respondents are not using social media right now a quarter of them rarely use it you have thirteen percent who are your regular users and twenty-seven percent who sometimes use social media wonderful thanks so much well and those responses are really interesting when we think about how others how we’ve heard

That others are using social media one thing that I was mentioned in preparing for this talk I’ve been out to to check recent data and there really is not any point of national poll among planners that shows how they’re using social media so the snapshot that all of you

Provided today is a really interesting display for kind of how people are are currently using this technology or not as part of their planning work here’s a study that certainly it’s not representative but it is another snapshot it’s from Virginia it was conducted by tone Sanchez’s technology

For planning class at Virginia Tech and they surveyed Virginia planning offices they had about a forty percent response rate which is really fantastic and interestingly enough twenty-seven percent of those responses just like our poll today said that they were using social media as part of sharing planning information with the public and that

Twelve percent of respondents were not using technology at all interestingly the the study’s authors reflected on what they saw as this low level of technology that’s being used in Virginia and this emphasis here is mine they talked about GIS and earth are really popular but that social media and blogs and some

Other kinds of visual ation visualization tools really are underutilized and they speculated on some of the reasons for that it could be cost certainly that’s something that we’re all facing today and various office policies for example some agencies still have firewall blocks that that restrict people from accessing

Social social media sites like Facebook and other one that’s starting to change we’re seeing as more and more agencies realize that these tools are great are good ways to talk to stakeholders but some of those policies are still in place another point I want to draw out

Of this study and you can certainly access it there at the the link that’s noted at the bottom of the page is they found that about eighty-five percent of people are using technology to prepare reports and presentations which is really great but I really want to focus

On the first two categories their data collection and data analysis because those are really the types of activities that involve stakeholder engagement and as you can see here sixty-eight percent of people that twenty-seven percent are using technology for data collection and six of one percent for analysis and what

We’re really talking about in applying social media for stakeholder engagement it’s finding ways to tap what’s called the emergent expertise we’re looking at connecting with frontline stakeholders with community leaders and we’ve engaged customers too especially for public transit agencies that are looking for ways to to provide information about

Schedules and that type of thing to people who use their services the theme you’re going to hear me talk a lot about today is the importance of knowing what your stakeholders are using and how they want to interact with you that’s really a key lesson I think and the Bay Area rest

Transit agency is I’d say a leader in terms of public transit and engaging with their stakeholders in music social media there are some others out there trimet is really good MTA and move your there are some others as well but Hart did this survey as part of updating their public participation plan this

Last year and they asked stakeholders they had about a thousand respondents what are the best ways to present detailed material to you for our meeting and I think it’s really interesting that forty-three percent of people said that they wanted to go online to look at material before me now what that means

Could be many things blog it could be an website you know etc etc but it shows that people have a desire to go to tech technology the Internet as a way to facilitate learning more about planning decisions and projects a second question which i think is also really interesting

They also asked people in addition to a meeting how likely would you be to use the following to express your views on bart related issues and you can see here three of them listed there our technology enables books email as we know but people had an interest in

Completing a survey online as part of providing data again going back to the data collection function as well as participating in online discussion so I thought this was a really great example of understanding again what people are looking for as ways to support my active public participation and bart use that

Data as part of putting together public participation plan this last year and you can access that on on the internet they’ve talked about also using their website to conduct surveys and polls and that’s something that they say if you’re going to be implementing I love Bart as an example they’re really socially media

Savvy as you can see down here in the right hand corner they’ve got all the icons or Twitter feed Facebook page etc one thing that they’ve also talked about which i think is really great about social media in particular is they’ve talked about being able to make information available in multiple

Languages which supports inclusivity and knowing that diversity and inclusion is a goal of engagement one thing that I want to draw your attention to is the ability to use a variety of platforms to talk to people in their language so if you have a large proportion of Spanish

Speakers in your community to have a Twitter feed that makes announcements about upcoming meetings in that language would be pretty easy to do so that’s another great benefit of all these different social media channels I can’t leave the bart example without citing they’re just they’re forward-thinking applications in terms of mobile options

And you can see here they’ve got you know mobile website you can get information by SMS you know text message on your phone they have some third-party applications now some of you may be saying wanna planning agency and we really don’t have a need for that type

Of thing what I think is really cool about this from the perspective of art is they really see this as a way to develop long-term relationships as part of then bringing people in for specialized project consultation so you know wow this is something that may not

Be for everyone I think we’re going to start to see more and more of at least the mobile ready website as technology changes and I’d like to just touch on that a little bit we’re going to be doing a conference next month on mobile applications and games for engagement

And in my research I just see more and more of this happening this is an application that was developed as used by brisbane city government for people to send in repairs you know requests for things that need to be fixed you can see the park bench example here it’s called

Fix vegas i’m not sure why they call it fix vegas but um you know Apple is really the big behemoth room when it comes to mobile technology what they do the other providers of you know cell phones grab on to and so we’re starting to see already Android and some

Of these other cell phones that are out there are really kind of catching off with apple and so as these kinds of cell phones that are more sophisticated than many computers Chris talked about become just kind of just the way cell phones are Morgan Vic witness we’re going to

See more and more of these apps and I have to mention i remember of the APA technology division and there’s a great article in the newsletter this last time about how delaware ohio has created an application that people can use to report code violation so this is really

The coming weigh-in in any way it is important though as you think about these different technologies to keep an eye to kind of what are the national trends as well as locally as I’ve mentioned here you can see six and ten Americans use wireless internet through mobile devices there they email they do

Instant messaging and of course via shows African Americans 18 to 29 year old lead the way in using these cell phone data application another study by pew internet which is a great resource if you’re tracking some this trend shows that Latinos really are using mobile phones to access the internet a lot and

There’s speculation that that’s because of digital divide issues so as you think about inclusion you need to think about these larger issues and also as we think about data collection consider the types of uses that people are are using on cell phones so taking the picture for example you’re doing a visioning process

Getting people to to do that could be a really great way to tap into a use that again people are already already know how to do or to send or receive text messages comments on plan or announcements about me so cell phones I think are a-coming ways as part of the

Social media mix that it’s going to just become more common I want to know is I’ve into a couple of other examples here’s a sight Montgomery planning dot org part of the math maryland-national capital Park and Planning Commission what I love about this particular website is that it has a range of

Different things available they have two blogs and blogs are great for commenting and getting feedback certainly in their ways that you can export those comments to be able to track that as part of your engagement and they have directors blogs you can kind of high level policies

Other types of things but they also have a project related blog called a straight line which is also great they have an event calendar and they have a little poll there tell us how we’re doing and they have a Facebook page you know i do

Want to pause for a minute and talk a little bit about facebook facebook is great it’s a free tool and heaven knows they all like three things but from an engagement perspective it does have some drawbacks one of the things about facebook is that there is not a way to

Export comments so it’s wonderful to post information or videos there that type of thing you can do a chat in some ways through facebook for some applications you can add to your page to enable that but facebook is one of the few applications out there that you cannot export comments so all those

Posts to the page love the plan don’t like the plan change the plan if you want to have a staff member cut and paste those things it’s pretty time-consuming the good news is there are some other applications out there that can can be used to together

Comments and plan and that that will let you export that kind of information I’ll talk a little bit more about that in a few minutes I do get a lot of questions about or like your mixes inning has a twitter account I’m sure many of you also do but

Thirty-seven percent of people are using their phone to tweet so we’re starting to see some crossover there between traditional use of computers and the phone as we were talking about a few minutes ago interestingly more women used Twitter than men they tweet a little bit more than men but Twitter

Trails Facebook and if you have to decide where to spend your time you know that’s that’s a factor to consider forty percent of people are on Facebook sometimes it makes sense to go where people are then they don’t have that current of learning a whole new technology and the place matters too if

You’re in some place like seattle twitter is grave no love a Kansas small community maybe twitter is not the best fit for you it also trends to be somewhat affluent in terms of the demographic so just going into this knowing all that is it’s just good background especially if you need to

Build a case for city manager or someone else we did your agency to say here’s why we should be using this technology or that technology and here’s an example just one or many out there of how an agency is using Twitter for announcements Park County Colorado another thing Twitter there are some

Applications where you can export posts that you receive one I think is called tweet beds they’re a handful of them out there but the drawback of Twitter is 140 characters so if people have a lot to say to truncate what you what you want to offer in terms of input on something

Is kind of difficult there is certainly a ton of tools out there that can my eyes in terms of the types of comments received and you know who’s following you and all those types of things on Twitter there’s also that that that capability with facebook as well so that

Is one benefit in turn of getting a sense of how popular your page is a review to Twitter for you one thing i want to draw into is another approach to social media everybody’s probably pretty familiar with Wikipedia this is a wiki that was used for a

Planning project very cool it’s it’s a more non-traditional approach I think where people collaborated together just like you do in Wikipedia on editing and putting together this plan again it’s not an approach that a lot of agency agencies use but it is a neat way to to engage with people using social media

And this is melvin australia sometimes people will say to me well that’s all well and good but there’s too many things to choose from and we’re a small agency you don’t have the staff to you know do all these social media project and i like to say you know simple can

Always be be a good way to go this is an example from Los Angeles their bicycle plan update this last year they did a webinar you can do a PowerPoint you can do a webinar and they had let’s say they had over 100 people RSVP they have it

There’s you know about fifty percent drop off generally and free programs we see that as well with some of the three programs that we often public decision but it isn’t a way that you can expand your audience so sometimes you can only have time and effort money to do one

Thing it’s okay to pick just one of these things and any zeppelin gauging people here’s another example from texas where they use podcasts to update people about project so you could subscribe to that or you could read the transcript so if you weren’t into that whole itunes

Thing you know there’s another way to access the report you know i’m going to go down to my comments a few minutes ago about being able to export comments because that’s really important you need to be able to often show and analyze that data is I’ll a part of your engagement effort

This is a site there are many of them many of these tools available this is called engagement HQ it’s by a group out of Australia called bang the table there are a lot of other tools that you could look at if you go to the website participate DV like database com there

Are range of them there I looked really like this one it’s used a lot an Australian starting to use to your Austin’s been using it because it allows a lot of rich media videos pictures and a whole range of things another thing I like about the site is if you want to do

A closed engagement you’ve got advisory group you can just close it to them and have them participate so it’s a really nice application and here is just a picture of kind of what the discussion looks like people can agree disagree they can report something is off comment

And it has a report reporting capability that quantitatively and qualitatively you can review what was posted and you know percentage of people agreeing and all that type of thing so it’s got a really nice robust back in and they moderate comments for you so there are some other ones out there that’s just

One but you need to really think through all these different aspects for what you need when you go about selecting a social media to I can to give this talk without mentioning one of the hottest topics of the last year which is crowdsourcing this is a project from

Utah that was around designing a bus stop it’s a custom design in that it is built specifically for this projection it’s pretty cool it’s got a ability to submit a design you could rate a design with the discussion forum to there are some off-the-shelf applications as their

User voice is a big one these days or a lot of other ones but one thing I want to draw out here there are some questions about what really is crowdsourcing does there have to be voting for to be proud sourcing does a survey account as crowdsourcing what

About qualitative comments if you go through that and get a sense of you know some themes as that count as crowdsourcing so it’s kind of a great big buzzword right now but you need to really think through some of those there’s questions as you consider using a crowdsourcing approach to engagement

There’s a really great article by Rob good speed in this month the most recent technology newsletter from the tech from the APA technology division that I would drive your attention to one other point I’ll mentioned is it’s really important going back to this building the long-term relationship and the project’s

Periodic engagement with stakeholders as part of that it’s need to be merely apartment people how are you going to use the information that you’ve received from them through crowdsourcing are you going to go with what the crowd says you know they vote 52 votes they like this

And 25 against you’re going to go with what the crowd says or are you going to take that under advisement as part of a larger decision-making structure so that I’m good at which death i’m just going to pause you for a second because the term crowdsourcing is new to a lot of

The folks that are participating in today’s webcast can you just step back and explain simple language what is crowdsourcing for those who aren’t familiar oh sure you re great Jennifer I in fact I do get into I know what it means but others may not crowdsourcing

Is really a movement and this last year where you can get a sense of really one of the preferences of a group so it could be around a particular design or no funding options or you know different choices that you would present to people and say you know tell us where if you

Were going to we give you a certain amount of money or a certain number of votes where would you allocate those things so we can consider that as part of making decisions and so a lot of these crowdsourcing application we’ll ask people to to debut those things up or to vote on particular

Options it kind of gives them more more quantitative perspective as compared to submitting a comment in writing you know I think this and here’s why I like this project and things of that nature so does that help well then let me move on a little bit then I want to talk a

Little bit about costs and benefits and trade-offs I’ve touched on that throughout my slides but it would be really great to hear from everybody if you could just type in the chat window what you see as the top challenge you face and using social media and if you’re not currently using social media

What is the top challenge to start a continued to social media that you see and we’ll just pause for a minute and that pardon get a sense of of folks reactions to that question okay that’s while folks are pausing at posting comments which they are vigorously doing

Can you give one or two other examples of crowdsourcing we’ve gotten several questions from folks asking for other types of applications so you mentioned next stop designed to have another example you might point to oh gosh let’s see all the top of my head do you want

Me to jump in and help you there yeah if you would just off the top of my head I can’t think of there are tons of them out there but I’m just drawing the brain so the White House has been really big on trying to promote the use of this

Particular tool crowdsourcing and so they have their office of science and technology with soliciting ideas about where should Science and Technology Research be going HUD recently used this as part of setting priorities that members of the public could come in and give their input on what ideas that they

Think might be most appropriate there’s an effort right now in i believe it’s Lincoln Nebraska and they are using this as part of their comprehensive plan to look at the various growth scenarios and get a crowdsource input on those both scenarios ok Beth I have some folks

That have been typing in their their comments here so I’m just going to read off a few of these and you can pick and choose what you want to address so Landon says the time to update that’s a big challenge George is working with leadership to develop a plan for a

Consistent voice jim says yes the time commitment as well Jasmine says the staff time required resistance by public sector clients from an it looks like Cathy and several others upper level staff challenges wow those are all those are all challenges I think that we’ve all encountered in different projects

And and it’s certainly not surprising as we think about this is something that’s a little bit new for people and you know those are certainly legitimate concern into the staff time absolutely that is one that needs to be considered even if you use some of the free tools you still

Have to have somebody who’s monitoring met wit or fee or whatever it is so that’s something that really needs to be considered and so you know like they say sometimes just starting small with one particular tool that you know people find pretty popular in your community is sometimes the way to go the

Sustainability over time is something as well and certainly that’s that’s something that needs to be communicated to leadership you can’t just start that Facebook page and then you know expected to just kind of maintain itself it should really be thought about as part of your larger social media and

Engagement strategy so how are you going to use that to cultivate that relationship another point the keeping pace I don’t think any of us would have expected that Facebook was going to overtake myspace but it happened and so while you’re working on whatever it that

Tool is that you found to be a good man community you also have to be aware of where are people going so that you don’t get yourself in that that kind of situation when using a technology that really has been passed by and the Sunshine Law a piece of that it’s

Certainly talking with upper level staff there’s been a lot of discussion lately employer forums I’m part of a FOIA chat that that happens regularly that’s been something especially following the Supreme Court ruling in recent years about social media and it was a case that involved a blackberry with a staff

Member what’s accessible and what’s not different states have different laws on that so you should definitely check with your legal counsel so that you’re compliant you know a couple of other things in the community side it can really enhance your reach I think they’re touched on that a little bit and

The diversity inclusion asked an inclusion aspect is really great as well one thing I didn’t talk about in my comments today the second light is a place that for example people with disabilities go there’s there’s a lot of resources there for them and so if you’re trying to reach out to people

With disabilities in your community it’s it’s a great place to go go to for talking with them so you know thinking very broadly about these kinds of things in ways that you can meet people where they’re at is is really important there is a learning curve for some of these

Technologies as well and you need to be prepared to help people this is one reason why it’s good to go where people already are because then you don’t have to help them learn how to access that technology and then on the side of the tool locked up a little bit about some

Of the functionality and the recording issues that you really need to to think through carefully so you know what you’re getting into and that the tool can really do but you need for it to do so language is touching on the three key points first of all you need to know the

Technology again what are its limitations and weaknesses water it straight and opportunities and I really encourage people if you’re going to start using social media keep an eye into how other people are using it successfully and unsuccessfully and go outside of the profession I’ve gotten some great

Examples from the health sector and you know other professional practice areas that I’ve adapted and you know it’s always valuable to to borrow ideas like them know what you’re trying to accomplish with that project it’s really easy with all these cool new tools coming out you get all excited one we

Can do this but don’t get sucked into that you need to go in with your criteria what do you need the technology to do then look for the tool that matches that the harvesting of the information I can’t emphasize that enough nobody wants to be cutting and

Pasting posts on Facebook so think about that piece and how are you going to know that technology has been successful if you’ve got to do performance reporting in your agency you need to be able to talk about hey this is a good investment of our time and then thinking over all

About your your agency strategic home gotta think long-term about engaging people and supporting the mission and last of all I’ve emphasizes several times how are people using the technology if it’s new how can you help them effectively use it and and finally the social media is not a vo lens all I

Think it’s really a compliment to your other approaches you always have public meetings and all these other ways that you’ve always engaged with people it’s just a way to to really enhance and expand on ways that you involve people in your in your decision and I can’t

Can’t conclude without just putting in a plug for the the Ning site that Chris mentioned earlier we have a 500 people or so part of that group so really encourage you to get involved with that and here is how you can reach me through a variety of social media

Forms as well as traditionally you’re welcome to join our free circle clubs that we send out e-mail announcements about our programs we have a lot of free things as well as low-cost things so connect with us and love to have you participate in the program so with that

I’ll turn it back to Jennifer and Chris okay wonderful thanks so much Beth so I will just mention for folks that we do have a Twitter feed that is running so if you go to Twitter and search for hashtag APA social media i’m posting many of the links that Beth has been

Talking about and we’ll do the same thing with Judy’s presentation so if you want more information about the various posts that have been talked about throughout today’s presentation check us out on twitter at APA social media all right with that Chris I’ll turn it back

Over you ok thank you um I had already talked about Judy Dover’s and what she does with the Atlanta Regional Commission so I’m just going to ask her to start her presentation and then I’ll come in at the very end ok great Judy I see your presentations up so you’re

Ready to go ok hello everyone thanks so much for joining us today I’m really happy to share the things that I know but I’ll have to tell you that public decisions website is a god send it has so much there to to really inform so Beth does a superior job in putting all

That together and disseminating it out so it’s really really recommended to you so it’s my hope today that koalas share some of my thoughts about social media with you that each of you can share your thoughts with us you each have a whole other set of experiences and insight

Whether it’s just at the beginning or at the as a more advanced level it can be a really rich discussion at the end of this this webinar if you can add your thoughts which you probably are doing right now I can’t see what what’s happening what I’m going to do today is

To tell you a little bit about where I work and what we’ve been doing in social media share with you some of the cool applications that i have come across and in the presentation with some pho wat thoughts i’m coming to this presentation from the point of view of a public

Agency practitioner we’re on the path of discovery of social media but a lot of the concerns that you all express just a minute ago those are concerns that we have as well and i can tell you what we have done with it and in what in some of

The questions that we ask ourselves every day so at the end i also have some more resources that you can look at as well so to begin the Atlanta Regional Commission is where I work our board is composed and this is very critical to social media our board is composed of

County Commission chairs and mayors of cities and some citizen members within a RC we are mpo a metropolitan planning organization that focuses on transportation planning and original trip original Planning Commission which focuses on land use planning in addition to many others and you can see the screenshots here from our website as to

All of the different parts of a RC and our social media is touching on each one of those for the purposes of today though be concentrating mostly from the point of view of community outreach and transportation and land use planning our planning territory is very defined is 18 counties in the metropolitan Atlanta

Area for transportation planning that’s 5 million people and with that 5 million people we are federally and by state law responsible for sharing our plans with the with the region’s people and getting their input if all well and good to hear from others in other parts of the

Country or the world but input from our region is really uppermost in our in our work so right now we’re currently coming to the end of a three-year planning process called plan 2040 is our long-range land use and transportation plan and it’s due to be adopted to the summer

For this plan and the plans that contribute to it which are the jurisdictional plans modal plans corridor plans we base our outreach on conversations with the leadership of the region decision-makers those who are impacted by the plans and those who have an interest this that’s a lot of people

But it is defined geographically by our plan boundaries and at the end of the day decisions of these public affairs or for these public affairs are made by registrar group of people so to start off I have a few charts as well to begin the discussion of social media we

Recognize that they are seized in 2008 that social media was important and this graph from emarketer shows is talking about social networking site utilization from 2005 to 2010 and like death was showing you 18 to 29 year olds i went from sixteen percent utilization in 2005 to eighty-six percent in 2010 65 and

Over over five percent to twenty-six percent but the largest increase was the 50 to 64 year old category and that was seven to forty seven percent social media is really dynamic and certainly it’s cost effective both hardware and software are involving literally before our eyes but I’m not totally convinced

That if applicability is unlimited but it is impactful and people think that another table from the pew research center’s internet and american life project shows that people think that the influence of the internet on the ability of groups to impact Society in a major way that’s fifteen percent of the people

That responded fifty-nine percent also said that there’s a major impact in organizing activities and forty-nine percent there was a major impact in impacting local communities so it shows people are pretty positive about what the Internet can do but it’s also true that in order for these things to happen

Both groups would need to be civically active already and know how to engage as a community before applying social media at least that’s my point of view social media is a great convener for controversial happenings for sure and tech savviness remains a barrier but it’s breaking down all the time mobile

Technology is more and more user friendly as becoming a more of us are becoming mobile but mobile applications for planning if they do not support in-depth understanding or analysis so getting back to a RC for a minute in 2009 we decided to to kind of tread gingerly towards this new environment we

Have to consult on a concept hub to suggest a strategy framework for us and this is the components of that strategy in front of you what did we really need to understand before we ventured out if seems obvious now that of what concept help suggested at the time but at that

Time all we saw was the gwave stuff and the amazing connection we could get with little expenditure and oh if it would be a detriment to our work in our and our profile if we didn’t jump right in but we were given a methodical communication strategy that dealt a lot with who was

Our audience and what did we really want to do those were and are still the most important aspects of using social media our audience really is the finite metropolitan Atlanta area we do want meaningful and useful feedback from from the community but we have to define it in certain very focused geographic terms

So let me show you a little bit about what we’ve done Facebook of course we have a Facebook page for the whole agency our fans are multicultural they’re evenly split between men and women the largest age group is 25 to 44 they really help us reach an audience

That we might not have gotten to otherwise but it is part of a complete communication strategy and it’s at the IRC facebook page that you see here is in addition to several other Facebook pages we have for our activities and ride smart or transportation demand management activity City connections with our

Governmental services division age-wise connections with your aging division and model a RC which is our high school program all these sites communicate with their fans we have a total of thirteen hundred and twenty fans we get feedback from them we respond to them we get negative comments we let that happen

Unless it’s just a little bit it’s not a sense of if it is offensive we don’t play it out but on the other hand we find that Facebook pages for individual products projects like a corridor study may be a little overkill because they really just put people back to the

Website itself and if the project is controversial of course thats that’s one thing but it takes a lot of effort and time to update a Facebook page especially if you are consultant in this isn’t India is part of your contract Facebook is good to introduce thoughts

But it’s hard to have a conversation for any length of time we have two blogs that we these are these took the place of newsletters that our land using our transportation planning divisions had we have these these two blogs that are sent out through wordpress we like them very

Much there’s no blogging activity is more of a dissemination of information but people do searching that from the google sites they do they can get information very quickly through the the search terms so and we can get stats that are very helpful to us so we like

This but it’s it’s really not a blog as such what we have done for our our long-range plan to play in 20-40 is introduce something into our outreach strategy in addition to stakeholder meetings and community face to face forums interviews briefings workshops media outrage speaking engagements we’ve put together online public meetings and

These incorporate all that our standard public meetings would have there is a video about the process and audio about how the only public public meaning works a video PowerPoint with audio of the presentation a survey to respond to resources and backup material and archives of previous information collected we utilized meo SurveyMonkey

SlideShare and the services of our in-house videographer during 2010 we had four of these they were alive for one to two months at a time and we intend to do two more before the plan is hopefully adopted this summer we’ve had about 1,400 visits to the site for this

Particular online public meeting site in about 200 responses to our surveys and what you see in the screen is the card that we send out an ecard inviting people to come to the meeting and some of our resources it’s not very clear what those are but we have quick guides

That people can get to different parts of the planning effort in addition we utilize flickr we ran a photo contest in 2009 for our visioning effort called 50 forward one of the key goals 50 forward was to have a public conversation to envision atlanta 50 years in the future

It was open to all the residents of atlanta and the liner region and it was our first every time doing a photography contest we called it framing the future and we got lots of a of photography from every possible skill level we stole the idea from chicago NPO and they really

Helped us when we were initially planning this now to bloggers to not blog and twitter not tweet like I said a RC blogs to a very limited extent through the to the transportation spotlight in land matters but there really is not very much or conversation there is a PR expert ben

Brown that recommends something that I think is it came right from our it mimic exactly what our strategy said from our from the social media point of view if there’s a hot political climate which sometimes it is where where we are that surrounds the plan perhaps it’s better

To not have your own blog if you’re a public agency instead do some homework to seek out the most influential bloggers in the community and plug into their activity our Information Center day RC sends our staff opposed every day with the latest blog entries in the

Areas that we are working in along with newspaper and magazine articles of interest and our planet is keep track of blogs as well and so if we see something that is not writer factually inaccurate and we can plug into that blog right then and give them better information

Ben Brown suggests that you treat blogs issue with the press you build a relationship based on respect and transparency and you focus on building the relationships so it’s a great way to rely factual information and give a fair view of the project Twitter we don’t do we think Twitter is really good for

Sharing breaking news and information like state do tease and transit agencies and it’s good for small design groups one consultant tell me that twittering with great force a core group it’s hard to get followers any kind of large group of followers but when you have a core group you can really correspond with

Them pretty pretty nicely and an example of that was when they went on a tour they were able to tweet along the way and upload photographs they took and in it was very effective twitter is really good when there is something to save immediacy and you don’t have to post all

The time like I you would Facebook but there are other things that are wonderful some cool sites that I like very much and for instance all our ideas it’s very much like the crowd source and you talked about earlier you share ideas and you rate them it enables groups to to collect and

Prioritize ideas in a transparent way and it’s like a suggestion box that people can vote on and upload new ideas linds on Atlanta is a project of our public broadcasting station in Atlanta if a family of websites so one is focusing on civic engagement it is a

Called public square it enables you to connect and collaborate with residents and with local institutions KRC is a partner with this you build a profile and you search for issues that you can care about and there’s the education piece that’s called the network the forum network within mins on Atlanta and

That features thousands of lectures to better understand the community our plan 2040 neighborhood forums are featured there and then there’s Atlanta planet which is an online guide to the arts and cultural events of the region tell of town hall meeting is something that is is really interesting this is where

Thousands of constituents of a public official can receive a call inviting them to participate in this town hall meeting and on a specific date the same constituents will receive a second phone call allowing them to speak to the public officials these meetings allow the public officials to connect actually

With just a single phone call using the armlet automated dialing system and the listeners can ask questions and instant post can be conducted with the press of the button some of our local officials have used this the american association of state highway and transportation officials has a facebook page that is

Really asking for ideas about the new transportation legislation that Congress is expected to act on its on their facebook page they have a a question now what’s your chance to tell Congress what’s needed comment and share your ideas and post your video and you can

Get on to their side and then there’s a transportation TV or video that explains more about what you can do there in this last slide of good ways to participate the word participatory communication is when I’m hearing more and more other I like it is a way to

That sometimes there is a disconnect between public relations and public participation and to me this marries the two very nicely it’s a balanced way of participation it’s a two-way flow of conversation so in that respect I like the mashups that we have here in mashups are where you you include different

Technologies and different information tools into one place like the broward NPO it has an interactive bike route planning map and it’s a planning tools for bicyclist and if you’re a Google map ask people to you can pick your route which is the least traffic or which has

Which is the shortest route which is the fastest route is called find your path the tutorial video is really cool on this one is it’s it’s so low-key it’s like someone is sitting next to you and teaching you how to use the map it’s asking you to find the ice cream store

Near you and out pops the outputs the ice cream stores and and you can create a path that goes to that store on that map there’s another mashup the city of Centennial Colorado has done a master transportation plan and on the pins the the pinheads you can click on that and

Give your very specific project comments and this is really terrific feedback to the planning process miami-dade has been doing these public service announcement contests for a lot of years they’re only 81 now the focus this year is to influence is for the people who are entering the contest to put together a

Video that inform citizens about the benefits of the miami-dade transit biking and Ride program and and you can see all those videos on their site and in the winning PFA goes out broad and wide everywhere they give a minute in Chicago on is Chicago is it has a lot of

Good outreach going on and this particular one is there’s several given minutes but one in Chicago is asking what would encourage you to walk bike or take CTA more often as a transit agency it ran for two months in 2010 and is really seen as a new model for citizen

Participation you share your ideas with on how to make sure up easier place to get around without owning a car and connect those ideas with the community leaders that they have identified and and people can use they can text their ideas they can post them to the website

So it’s very interactive so what does this all mean I just gave you a very small selection of many possibilities out there it shows though that we can really disseminate information we can consider information as we never have been able to before but I think we must

Step back and wonder what it all means the public has as much information if they want at their fingertips but how are they going to analyze into sin consider this information are they are they really on the web to get together with other people socially are they really trying to understand the

Information and is the information of of a way that they can actually understand it is what is the filter of that information will they be able to get clarity in real time that you can you can do when you’re forming relationships relationships with planners and officials will the public be able to

Trust the information they see will the public officials be able to trust the information that is coming back to the in via blogs and feedback boxes and will they listen a little bit wonderful information that comes from all these great campaigns to get on the ground anecdotal input from the real people if

That meaningful is is it is it going to make a difference in the end ause wants to know what residents the 18 County regions think they want to get that feedback from that 18 County so should they go to a scientific survey to make sure it’s coming

From the people in the 18 counties and not somebody across the the world I don’t have a lot of answers on this I would love to hear what you all think I’m not convinced that we have found the magic solution to public participation through social media but in terms of

What it was like before I’ve been around a long time this is amazing stuff that’s happening right now but I think we have to be very careful about what we think about the information and how we use it so the questions that I have our what methodology really gives the most

Exposure in social media for your particular need what makes for the most deliberative decision or discussion I would argue that that is one of the most critical parts of this what gives the most clarity and what the public really thinks how will the decision maker trust the results and what can influence that

Decision maker than most and how can this be measured that’s also very important that’s what our leadership asked us constantly when we were going through the strategy so I think in every case there’s a lot more than one answer in the last slide I have today is just

To give you some resources in addition to best public decisions website of course the public agenda promises promising practices in online engagement is a really good paper it reviews games and deliberation reviews allowing citizens to set priorities using citizens as fact finders merging online and face-to-face engagement allowing

Experts and citizens to collaborate and connecting neighbors it has a lot of discussion about all of these tech not techniques that you can use and of course the National Coalition for dialogue and deliberation they always have good good information of the Compendium does here it’s a company

Of the best of the best resources I really encourage you to download that and interesting at the Orange County Transportation Authority has a wonderful a small guide that shares their thoughts and experiences and using social media using Facebook YouTube Twitter and giving their top Twitter tips and the

Social media Road rules for engagement so that’s pretty cool and Jennifer think that’s it for me wonderful thanks very much shooty and you gave us a lot of great information we actually have a series of questions that have come in specifically to you about your case

Studies so I think we should start with questions there and then in a few minutes we can open it up for a broader panel participation for some of the bigger picture questions related to social media so one of the first questions that we got from Kirby wants

To know can you tell us how your staff is set up who and of what skills do you have to do this extensive kind of social media program and how much funding your staff time went into this program um which one is he talking about I will try

For the online public meetings we have our senior staff are the ones that give the presentations and our communication staff we have a videographer that does all the taping and he is is on staff and we have a communication specialist for transportation land use planning and he helps us with the communication our

Communication staff is for people and they take turns posting to Facebook the community outreach staff is me so that’s all there is for us and that’s about it we have about 150 people working at a RC and I had to say that they get all enlisted at one time or another to do

Something the transportation spotlight and the land matters blogs are each staffed by a planner within one land use and one transportation okay great um how do you deal with inappropriate comments that are posted especially when they come in over the weekends or when they stay out there for

Extended periods of time have you had an issue with that no the comments that come in that are inappropriate i haven’t seen that if they come in out through facebook then our communication staff handles that and they handle it by giving that comment to the appropriate expert of that particular comment they

Expert the knowledge expert that particular comment and and they send something back that is pretty even-handed and and you know it positive if a comment is totally off the wall then there has been one that we received but i just let go because it was it

Didn’t make any sense at all but we very very rarely get anything that this distance and kind of along the same lines charles wants to know what about those who are getting organized a negative opposition to the planning processor program at hand this hasn’t been an issue for you that you had to

Guard against this negative or opposition so far not what we try to do is is it’s going to be different this time because social media is much more organized now in terms of blogs and we have not had any problem with our planning process so far what will be

Interesting though is we are about to look at a self tax referendum for transportation in a couple of years and there is a big movement right now that is going to be structured both for and against that and innovate in the blogosphere so that will be interesting

To see how that that goes about but the people that are mount opposition they come to our they come to us directly most of the time they come to our public meetings and and we try to talk with them individually that’s another part of our outreach effort it’s really small group meetings

That’s something that I prefer over social media actually is really the small group discussions well you can have a more reasoned analysis of the situation okay great we’ve got we’re going to take one more question related to what you’ve presented specifically and then we’ll start our broader questions so given the ER government

Agency and there’s a hot political subject what is your success in blogging and that can be open for debate so what is it that you’re doing to try to engage in in hot political subjects and how do you manage that that’s from Frank if four is blogging I don’t think that we

Are at that point anything that is a hot political item our our strategy is to make it a reasoned argument for what we are putting into the plan and but listening to what people have to say and see if there’s anything that we could we

Could use I think it needs to be a conversation and a conversation that’s this even-tempered so so far we have not had that that happened with plan 2040 has been we have been I think we had 200 in 50 meetings this last year so it was every part of the community so we’ve

Been really trying to get out there and talking to destroy to people as well as having the day online stuff ok great i’m going to go ahead and add chris and beth to our conversation and you all can decide who wants to respond to some of these questions so FOIA was talking

About briefly in some of the earlier presentations so that’s freedom of information act requests so how does fully apply to social media and how what do we need to be thinking about as planners to make sure that we’re addressing this so chain and several others asked about this well this is

That um i am not an expert on this and I’m certainly not an eternity so I just want to preface my comments with that different states have different laws that that relate to social media and things that need to be I guess you could say it’s my understanding archive so someone submits

A FOIA request I’d like to see all of the comments that came in for that planning process that would mean that you would need to you know archives of students that you’re you know receiving through social media so it’s really important to to talk with your counsel

And get a sense for what the for you laws are and in how to comply with that it’s my understanding from some of the discussions that I’ve just been in on on this Twitter chat that I participate in periodically that they vary from state to state and there’s been some changes

That some states are thinking about in terms of what’s for uofl and what isn’t so I’d encourage you to check in and I think that’s going to be an emerging area as the technology changes in the law tries to to keep up with that Judy I don’t know with your agency that’s

Probably something that you guys think about a good bit as well yes make it FOIA requests and and we will not have a meeting that isn’t public so there was a time when we were thinking in our social media strategy about having some core group meetings in making in having them

Mate online in a closed section like what Beth was talking bebeh we really can’t do that that’s something that is our agency is totally transparent so we couldn’t use social media for but to put barriers between discussions so we are we are we have to be subject to that for

You at all times our next question how much staffing is needed now of course this is highly variable depending on what type of project you’re using but maybe you could give one or two examples from our panelists who could just share staffing around a particular project

Yeah they really diverted duty on that i dinnae state project that we’re doing right now the plan 2040 is a staff of 30 or 40 people you know because we have research we have land use we have modeling we have gif we have all that as

Far as the outreach part of it I’ll have to say that all of us have a handle in that a handle on that a hand in that we we all do parts of it so I always just tell people it’s the whole staff and and I enlist them whenever they they’re

Needed I am a staff of one as far as the the public outreach title but what we have a planner who does nothing but environmental justice planning she’s out there every day with environment justice organizations and and then we have a lot of juice specialty things that are done

Within the planning process so it’s not real clear-cut important over here this is this is chris i think also Judy and Beth wouldn’t you say it’s it’s the particular public participation plan that you decide to go with as to how much staff you’re going to have to have

So for smaller agencies if they decide that one piece of using social media a small piece is going to help what they’re doing say with the comprehensive plan or whatever then they might not need 30 staff people to say do a blog or to you know do Twitter or whatever they

May not be doing as big a deal so it would depend on helping there their plan was or what their public participation plan was and also it also i think depends for some groups on do you hire a consultant to help you with that to help you at least get it set up

And and so forth well I can tell you that when we did the the beginning of the plan 2040 we had a consultant that helped us with the sum of the quick guides that that we wrote to make sure that people knew the different components of the planning process if

The manager of that outreach effort I’m responsible for kind of connecting all of the all of the parts of it and so we have lots of people doing the work but as far as someone’s putting together the the way it’s going to work and the methodology that we’re going forth you

Know it’s done by very few people okay all right so we just had a question from johnnys this what’s the approximate minimum size of a community to make social media worthwhile so Judith stated she had fourteen hundred views of an online presentation for a 5 million person region this ratio would only

Yield 8 views for my community so what are your thoughts on community size and and picking the right social media tools based on the audience Oh Beth good after that to you know that is not that many responses and views but if we were to go

Out with a public meeting it will be much less than that public meetings are just very very difficult and very costly and it is just one part of what we’re doing so I’m not unhappy with with 1,300 views oh I think that it helps is part

Of the whole and and so I think you just have to be very multifaceted and do a lot of different things and it all adds up does that make it this is Prince again I do think it Judy and beds have both pointed this out and as it can as a

Consultant working with communities and counties over the years it’s very important to know front what your plan of attack is and what social media you’re going to use and/or not use and do your research before you throw yourself into this and so that you don’t get to the end of a

Processing oh my gosh what have we done I agree with that I think in the points Judy made as well you know it depends on your particular community if you don’t have a very good way to engage people with disabilities who can get to the regular meeting but you’re able to

Connect with them using social media I mean right there that’s that’s a value-added if if it’s 25 people and they are really adding you know important comments that can help you respond to that need right there you mean even though the investment of time and effort might be substantial you’re

You’re really responding to a particular need in the community that needs to be included so I think it’s very individual i will say there are some ways that you can have a domino effect and what i mean by that is my twitter feed is this is

Not complicated to do the lawn kind of a gearhead I my twitter feed is hooked up to my facebook page and my linkedin page so every time I post something to my Twitter account it automatically shows up on my facebook page and my linkedin page so i’m only posting that

Information one and so that means people who i’m not a huge facebook user i have a page people are there it’s great but you know whatever way people want to connect with me you know that way they can keep up with those posted this or that so you know there are some

Economies that can also be achieved using the technology to so if you know going where people where it’s meaningful for them if you can find a way to do that and you have a very small staff of the time it can be beneficial and I think you have to start

Somewhere we decided that we would work with the facebook page and that would be what we did and and we would try out the online public meeting this is the first year we’ve done this last year was the first year we did it and we just want to

Start doing something and and i think that like Beth was saying you build on that and people start expecting and it becomes a little bit different later hopefully but we are trying to to go into many different types of communities and have different ways for people to

Engage so it is not a huge expenditure of time and I think compared to our public meetings that we had before it’s much better okay so one of the next questions is from Jacqueline and this one’s for best what polling tools are you familiar with that use cell phone

Devices and is there any low cost software for cell phone polling yeah there there there are some good ones one I would direct you to it’s called it’s a terrible name that is called text the mom that’s a pretty good one there are several others out there I don’t have a

List but what i can do is here in a moment or two I’ll pull them up and post them in the chat window that’s one in fact you know one of the neat things about kind of the crossover between these different platforms you know the meetings the wire ago in the Second Life

Which is a alternate world if you will to a place where people can go in and meet for those of you who are familiar with it it’s a virtual world and we were able to have people in that virtual world text in responses that then appeared on the screen in that virtual

World in response to poll so that’s one in terms of texting that’s really good i’ll i’ll post a couple others i just dropped the top of my head I I keep call them okay great so let’s see um next question okay so this is a common one eye I see this question

Happen a lot so Jim wants to know my staff is prohibited from accessing social media sites by municipal policy so for example when we had our hashtag earlier some people said you know what I can’t access Twitter from work so getting beyond that have you run into

This in terms of limited access for staff so the municipality can remain can maintain social media sites what are the words of advice to help get around some of those policies that are limiting access that’s becoming less and less of a problem it seemed like when it very

First started let Facebook and Twitter or so off limits to to the public agencies that I talked with but that has become so not a problem right now I don’t know what kind of advice I could give they didn’t the actual website would be the only place they could

Really give information out I suppose that’s would have a better solution everything for that yeah I think I agree is something that it’s changing a lot of federal agencies now I think are starting to to really realize that they need to allow that access and my sense

Of it is around building that business case saying you know we need some other ways to engage people and you know going on doing a survey of your stakeholders and asking them and if they use that tool I think this is a good place to start that conversation you can be able

To say you need to please make an exception and find a way to work with your IT people to make that possible that will probably like my best suggestion our next question is do you think that social media for public participation creates an unfair bias when gathering feedback on a plan for example

Tech-savvy versus non tech savvy stakeholders should this be a concern so that’s question for Mike I think so I think that’s what I was saying in my presentation I’m very worried about about that and one of the reasons is because there are some people who are very very connected to our planning

Process it’s almost like there is a bubble around those people in the planning process and the general public may or may not have that the connections to get there and so what the local officials are hearing are is information from that bubble and not particularly from all the people that are out there

And so surveys are okay focus groups are great but everything is very expensive so I think our public officials or public officials throughout would be very reticent to to take as as gospel the information that they get through a social media site this is chris i also have an example my daughter just

Finished an internship with a county and within the staff i think there was a problem there were some people that were really into use of social media and others that didn’t really have a clue what they were talking about so i think you’ve got some a big learning curve in

A lot of planning staff or some really know what’s going on and some have no idea and you can create a real imbalance than your own staff before you can even get out to the public so there’s a lot of learning to be done okay great thank

You all very much for your comments I i will add as a note that the fastest growing segment of the population that is adopting social media are those aged 55 and up so well I think it’s easy for us to be thinking about you know not having an older crowd that that

Knows what’s going on when it comes to social media is accurate for the moment that is rapidly changing so folks like yourself are participating in today’s webcast and learning more about what’s going on I do have a couple of announcements that I’m going to turn it

Back over to Chris so we mentioned today that there’s an upcoming web conference that Beth is hosting on games and apps for mobile phones and so you can go to her website at public decisions com to learn more about that a lot of the questions that have come up today a lot

Of the topics that have been talked about I’m writing a planning advisory service report that’s going to be coming out in April for those of you that are subscribers or you can purchase it from the APA website that’s going to go into detail and give examples and websites

And other things to help you learn more about this topic and as I mentioned today’s session is our introduction to social media we’re doing an advanced session on April first in that particular one we’re going to be going into a lot of detail with a deep case

Study looking at the use of Twitter and some other social media tools and how you can effectively use that to engage new people and some of the pitfalls you know you all brought that the FOIA and some of the other things and how a particular community has addressed those

Very detailed level issues so I hope that you’ll choose to join us for that April first session at this point I’m going to turn it back over to Chris who has a couple of announcements herself Chris I just wanted to remind everybody even though we’ve said this several

Times and I think Jennifer is providing this information to you after the our talk is over please we would love for you to join our APA Public Engagement interest group and she’s giving you the information on how to join that group you just go on to WWE eng mt4 sust mean

Calm and don’t worry that’s going to be coming through to you all later and then it asks the chair and co-chair if you’ll accept the person into the group and we accept people we’ve only had one ringer so we have about 500 people now and we are really

Be in need of people who want to provide information give us some ideas about what you think we ought to be doing in our name group and there it’s coming up on your screen is what looks like right now so we really encourage you to join

Us and we are also trying to have a little get-together at the Boston National APA conference the spring at April and we’ll be providing more information about that on the name page and probably through some other methods that we will get to you later but I just

Wanted to encourage you to please join and thank you so much for coming today we really appreciate it and I think this webinar whole series that CPC is doing is great in the divisions and universities and I really think this is a way for us all to learn a lot more and

I for one I’m going to sign up for that April one webinar thank you again all right thanks to our speakers and thanks to our audience you’ll have a survey that will pop up as you’re leaving today’s session please fill that out to provide feedback to our speakers today

And as a reminder you can log your CM credits today just look on the CM calendar and you’ll be able to select social media and that will get you your credits for our speakers I’ll be following up by email about an hour after today’s session and get you the

Feedback from the survey that everyone has completed so thanks to all of you for joining us and I will follow up by email to Beth Chris and Judy thanks so much thank you you

ID: 3fSGh5PyYS0
Time: 1344289869
Date: 2012-08-07 02:21:09
Duration: 01:26:28

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