Title:بحران قریب الوقوع پیش رو: تحرک در شرایط آب و هوایی در حال تغییر (تبدیل حمل و نقل ۲۰۲۱)

ارائه شده در ۳ فوریه ۲۰۲۱ سخنرانان: Kailash Gahlot، وزیر حمل و نقل، دهلی، هند، Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr، شهردار Freetown، سیرالئون Stientje van Veldhoven، وزیر محیط زیست/رئیس اتحادیه کربن زدایی حمل و نقل، معاون رئیس جمهور هلند مختار دیوپ، برای زیرساخت، بانک جهانی

قسمتي از متن فيلم: Welcome sustainable mobility world leaders and those of us who are hoping to be in the future this is transforming transportation 2021 virtual edition the title of this conference is always meaningful it says what we want to do on the tin and particularly this year when we are in the middle

Of a global pandemic so over the next three days we will be discussing where are we now where do we want to get to when it comes to transforming transportation in the future where you are right now well you’re with me i’m femi okay i’m your plenary host

For the next three days and this is the main stage if you’re on the hop-in platform there are lots of interesting exciting places for you to virtually go and explore you’ll have time to do that during the break if you’re on world bank live welcome it is great to see you and the

Way that we can all communicate and chat back and forth with each other on this hopping platform well there’s a little chat box under the main plenary main stage you can put your questions your thoughts your comments for every single speaker every single session right in there i will see it and bring

You into the conference so we’re in the conference together use that chat space if you’re on world bank live ttdc 21 is the hashtag if that’s a hashtag for all of us where we can put our comments our thoughts on to twitter so now we should get started there’s a lot to do

I’m going to hand over to the president of the world bank group david malpass thanks very much femi and uh thanks maktar for putting together what looks like a great uh conference i’m glad to be able to open it and then i’m i’m going to look forward to the readout

Of of all of the activities as all of you know that around the conference the transportation sector is critical uh in achieving sustainable development transport takes workers to their jobs children to school goods to local and global markets the pandemic has shown the importance of global supply chains

And the logistics systems we’re working every day with that on the vaccine challenges uh so that we can reach vulnerable populations so all of this is a very important and and and critical to how people uh connect within society and within within the the world um the gaps though are

Are are huge um they they include sustainability and also affordability we we estimate that it’s 420 billion dollars per year that’s needed for roads ports airports and rail uh 840 million people still live more than two kilometers away from a usable road in low-income countries half of them are

In africa one of my first trips with the world bank was to madagascar in fact i guess my first official trip uh and you could see that there uh a huge percentage of the population living far from a usable road and that makes it hard to get goods to market

Children to school and all of the things that are needed for transport um the costs have also been uh a an obstacle to growth and competitiveness uh in africa for example transport costs comprise up to 40 of the final price of goods in cote d’ivoire 57 of businesses say

Transport is a major obstacle to their operations so improving transport connectivity is going to be key for achieving both social objectives economic objectives and climate objectives global transport emissions have grown faster than those of almost any other area over the last 50 years the transport sector now accounts for a quarter

۲۵ of global energy related emissions and this we think could reach 33 if we stay on this course so we’re going from a quarter to a third of all global emissions coming from the transport sector used cars for example exported from developed to developing countries tend to be more polluting and less safe

But in africa only 9 out of 54 countries follow international good practices in order to regulate the imports of used vehicles in many cities unsafe and poorly designed public transport make it harder for women in the disabled to use transportation systems so the world bank works actively on trying to make transport

Safer as part of the connectivity challenge and getting people to jobs women to jobs children safely to school poor quality rural roads keep farmers from reaching markets and people from accessing jobs and social services so it’s important to increase the sector’s resilience as we look how we’re looking for ways

To to have a green inclusive uh resilient recovery from covid and growth into the future and in order to do that we’ve got to have less polluting more effective and universal public transport it’s got to provide infrastructure we need the infrastructure that would allow more access to options such as

Walking bicycling improving the urban and land management all of these are critical uh steps in finding uh in as countries look for ways to improve their own transportation systems uh and and uh connect with the themselves and rest of the world the world bank’s first priority is supporting countries efforts

To build more sustainable transport systems that contribute to their social and economic development goals to that end we’re helping countries introduce quality mass transit uh and helping them transition away from high polluting and fragmented informal urban transport services these are some of the big polluters and climate climate change contributors we’re also helping

Countries implement policies to disincentivize inefficient traveling and move people away from cars to buses trains bicycles and other sustainable modes and we’re promoting lower emission freight such as inland waterways railways and short seas shipping and using information technology to improve the efficiency of the trucking industry

Um so i’ll give you a few examples of our work uh and then i’m going to sit down and look forward to a very good conference uh we’re we’re working with 40 cities including dakar to scale up policies that bring together transport land use planning technology and private finance to promote urban

Environmental sustainability uh in karnataka india a world bank project has served a population of about 35 million people including 300 000 farmers and 1600 industries with the development of 1 000 kilometers of high quality highways that that we hope will create direct employment of 70 million labor days uh and in egypt

A vehicle scratch a vehicle scrapping and recycling program helped to replace the aging taxis in cairo some of which were over 50 years old i wrote on those in the in the 1980s with uh that with 46 000 newer taxis the project reduced accidents pollution and the equivalent of over 340 000 tons

Of carbon dioxide ifc our private sector arm is also working to promote more sustainable transport solutions for example in ghana ifc financed a new deepwater port at tema which will handle more than 90 percent of the country’s container traffic the expected trade boost could generate as many as 450

۰۰۰ new jobs and in bogota ifc uh supported the trans me cable it’s a cable car line which reduced commute times for the poorest residents from two hours to 13 minutes and that increased access to jobs so it’s very uh inclusive as people are able to uh have transportation at the world bank

Group we have goals for investment in climate action and we’re seeking to make investments in infrastructure and transportation that can contribute to these goals we also want to provide the critical access to infrastructure and transportation that’s required to meet the twin goals of reducing poverty and boosting shared prosperity forums like this one

Transforming transportation are useful they’re critical i think to bring partners from around the world to discuss these issues uh the world bank can help convene this kind of uh uh meetings that’s so critical for the for the form formation of new knowledge new conversation new ways to think about these challenges

So in the coming days i urge you to consider pragmatic practical and impactful solutions to the challenges in the transportation sector with that uh thank you and back to fema thank you very much president david malpass we are now officially open transforming transportation 2021 or hashtag ttdc21 if you’re talking about us

On twitter you are talking to each other and doing your warm welcomes which is which is very much part of tt let me tell you where the hellos are coming from hello sao paulo bucharest one is ours uh accra kampala geneva newcastle hello newcastle netherlands belgium holland mozambique and the list goes on

Everybody around the world you are very welcome to what is now a global tt21 i have to do some thank yous just a couple because we wouldn’t be here without them so i’m going to say thank you to the sponsor of tt which is the ptv group and the media partner which is

Devex device thank you otherwise you would not be seeing me you would not be hearing me now we are going to start the first of two plenary sessions today let’s roll the tape for session number One The imminent crisis up ahead that is our session you will meet the session panelists in just a moment but we are going to kick off with andrew steer who’s the president and ceo of the wri andrew there’ll be some people who would say that you an imminent crisis go together

Beautifully but i would fight those people andrew steer welcome to transforming transportation 2021 where should we start well thank you femi thank you everybody for coming it’s a great honor for the world resources institute to jointly manage this conference we’ve been doing it for several years now it’s become the biggest uh

And i think most important in the world and as president malphus just said it’s practical it’s pragmatic we look for solutions so distinguished ministers distinguished mayors leaders of the uh of the transportation revolution in the world um let’s get going i’m gonna be brief and i’ll talk quickly simply because

We’re really looking forward to the panel that is coming so uh we have to build back better and we need to remember where we’ve uh where we’ve come from over the last um i’m trying to turn forward my slides oh there we are how we’ve come over the last year

It’s been a dreadful year hasn’t it the numbers are simply horrifying um and it’s cost a huge amount um an estimate of 25 trillion by 2025 but worse than that the world bank estimates over 100 million people may have been pushed back into uh poverty

Um and uh and we’ve learned a lot about injustice in the world um and uh as we move forward we’ve got to take these issues extremely seriously this last year was the hottest a year in recorded history equal with 2016 um and in addition to that we had

Um effects of climate change which were stunning the worst fires recorded and a number of geographies around the world more storms in the atlantic region uh hit land than than ever before in a recorded uh history um we had the worst locust infestation in the horn of africa for 70 years

All linked as scientists tell us to climate change um as president malpas just said so well um transportation has a major role to play as we try to build back better he just gave us these data uh just here and we know um we know what we need to do

This is the business as usual path and we now need to get to a 1.5 degree scenario we can’t do that um by incremental uh change we need radical change so like just to sort of lay out the upheaval going on in the transport sector very very briefly

The good the bad and the ugly uh if you live in nepal there’s been some good times you’ve seen everest for the first time uh in many many years um biking has become and walking has become much much more popular and the leading mayors some of which we have on the panel today

And some of the ministers have done some incredibly innovative uh things on the new mobility uh but look um the bad uh public transportation is in a massive crisis as you know uh ridership has shrunk massively and of course that’s put sort of incredible um economic uh pressure on

Uh transport systems around the world uh here are some numbers for the eu brazil india but tens of thousands of transport companies around the world are big and small are now on the verge of bankruptcy and some have already gone over so this is a huge threat

Not to the only the vibrancy of cities but to the poor in the world um in africa alone um 80 million people is estimated to have fallen into poverty the the collapse of public transportation is just one of the reasons but it’s a very important reason for the

Reasons that uh david malpus just said um and the ugly um uh surveys around the world are now showing that people want to get back in their cars they don’t trust public transportation so we’ve got a pretty serious problem we need to go straight at the bullseye

So as we think now about building back better um green transport is absolutely essential and i know many of you are at the very center of that discussion some good news here if you are a government and you want to reboot your economy and you want to create jobs quickly

There is no better option than to use new green transportation including cycling and walking if you want to create jobs quickly and that’s very good news now the question is are countries doing it this is an assessment of the 13 trillion dollars that so far has been allocated

As part of the rebooting of the world economy and of that amount about 30 percent of it one can say one can code it for either being green or gray and you’ll notice that some countries led by the eu um have been uh quite uh quite innovative the way they’re thinking

The one on the far right is what mr biden has been offering we don’t know whether he’ll get it through congress but you’ll notice that most countries have been going back to rather the old-fashioned uh sort of uh of way and if you look at transportation in particular

If you try to estimate sort of how much is green how much is gray unfortunately most of it is still the old fashioned so in other words let’s pour cement on roads um let’s uh create uh ring roads and uh and flyovers but actually if you invest in public transportation

And new forms of transportation you will get a lot more jobs and you’ll get them a lot more quickly so what we need to do obviously is think about sort of four things we’ve got to recover the economy number one we’ve got to think of health and safety we’ve got to address climate

And it has to be inclusive because quite frankly we’ve failed on that in the past and we have shocking inequalities in the world so what does that imply well implies a three-pronged approach for transportation quality mass transit shifting travel to energy efficient modes and electrify transportation and

Listening today and on the panel we have leaders around the world in this case just just to sort of remind you of the facts if you’ve got a million dollars you can create eight jobs if you build roads if you invest in a charging stations you get 15 to 21 jobs ev manufacturing

۱۶ to 22 jobs and so you can see that actually this is a pretty good deal expanding public transportation 23 to 29 jobs so for heaven’s sake why don’t we do it here are just five opportunities just to frame the issue that we might find useful in the discussion that comes

First of all we’ve got to restore public transportation which is in crisis first we need to stabilize it then we need to reimagine it and we’ve seen some great examples around the world of governments and mayors that are really committing here’s just one from nigeria

But there are many and we now need to replicate that and and scale it up second we need to double down on active transportation it’s very very exciting to see what’s happening in in colombia for example the mayor claudia lopez he wants all a half of all trips to be made

Um by bank very very exciting and we need to now make this a revolution third we need to electrify uh transportation it turns out that actually um investing in electric buses can be cheaper over time when you take maintenance um costs uh into account um and

And it needs to be done right away by the way we’re at the world resource institute thanks to the pesos earth fund we’ve been asked to help really push through the nearly half a million school buses which exist in the united states almost none of which are electric um and

Make them become electric and by the way um one of the wonderful things is they provide a modern electricity storage system for the grid and they save dozens of power plants from needing uh to be built so it’s a very very exciting time for the electrification fourth we need to shift people

And goods to rail the evidence is overwhelming many people in the audience have done world-class work on this you know that the question is it’s simply not happening fast enough we need leadership that is much much stronger and finally we need clean r d for the harder to abate

Sectors um and what we’re finding is that actually the hard to abate sectors are not quite as hard as we thought indeed um mission possible um the commission for the energy transformation um has demonstrated that it’s less than one percent of gdp by 2050 to to get a full decarbonization of the so-called

Hard to abate sectors which we now need to call not quite so hard to evade um let me end just by talking about the sort of the path to glasgow because as president malphus said um transport has a central role to play in this decisive year in going into this

Decisive um a decade at first net zero targets are taking off so we’ve got a lot to be uh pleased about we never would have dreamt five years ago at paris that 64 countries today accounting for more than half of all the global emissions would actually be committed

To um to net zero nor would we have dreamt that over a thousand companies would have been committed to science-based targets which means total decarbonization over the next 30 years adding all of their emissions including scope 3 comes to over 7 gigatons we never would have dreamt that 10

۵۰۰ cities would have signed up to the global covenant of mayors which commits you to move towards net zero so this is all extremely a positive the plain fact the matter is as of today it’s not yet fully uh adding up the world resources institute just brought out a

Piece of work last month that shows this is what would be required in order to get to 1.5 degrees as president malpa said the the transport sector there you see electrification of vehicles needs to happen 22 times faster than it is now um but the good news is it’s starting to

Accelerate pretty rapidly with general motors announcement uh last a week so what’s needed now great that everybody’s committing to net zero in the middle of the century but what’s needed are now the 10-year plans here to 2030 and those are called so-called ndc’s as part of the paris deal so far

۷۱ have been updated and 43 of them are more ambitious than last time which is exactly what you’re supposed to do under the paris deal now the next thing that’s needed is finance a wonderful picture of our favorite institution the world bank here and what’s needed well the problem is

There simply is not enough finance at the moment for green transportation or the green revolution and you’ll remember that 11 years ago in copenhagen the world agreed rich countries agreed to put 100 billion dollars per year by 2020. that hasn’t happened yet it needs to happen uh this year

Um so too the financial sector as a whole needs to be aligned some very exciting work led by uh governor mark carney as to how do we move the entire financial sector not only towards uh net zero but actually driving forward the green revolution and third we’ve got

To think about debt forgiveness and obviously the world bank is at the very center of of that um i’ve just lost my clicker by the way oh here we are so um so that that’s finance so that’s a very very high uh priority uh indeed

Um my my clicker is not well there we go so uh finally what’s needed the so-called race to zero and this is one of the exciting things on the journey to to uh glasgow is the notion that actually out there there are sectors that need radical reform

And they can be reformed we can have transportation the transformation of these sectors that actually will be good for the economy as well as good for people so for example we already talked about the elimination of the internal combustion engine we need by the end of this year 40 countries that are committed

To totally phase out the internal combustion engine by 2035 for cars and light vehicles it’s perfectly doable um the economics makes sense the united kingdom of course has said that it will do it by 2030. so too zero carbon shipping which we thought was impossible actually it’s not

Companies like maersk have already made that commitment and so too battery storage whose costs have been coming down we need to see a real revolution and these require multi-stakeholder coalitions private sector governments science coming together and that’s what we need to do on the so-called race two zero um

Finally i just want to sort of end with a a point that we need to think about as transport experts we need system change not climate change there are no silver bullets this is a jigsaw puzzle not a simple easy solution therefore we need to think differently and

Whether it’s the world bank or whether the various ministries that are represented here or whether the many cities or whether the researchers we need to work together to think through what could happen in this decisive decade if we work together um finally so what does this add up to

Well these are very rough numbers by the way because there’s a lot of uncertainty embedded in them um under current policies that’s the ndc’s that were committed in the time of paris and over the last five years we’re heading for roughly a three degree celsius world this is a disaster

Now if you take all of the countries and all of the cities and all of the companies that have committed to net zero we’re heading towards a 2.1 degree celsius world which is real progress the problem is most of those that have committed to net zero don’t yet know how they’ll get there

And of course many haven’t yet done it so so that would that would be a real improvement if you think about it going from three to two point one this year this decisive year could be a one degree world so so these are very exciting times

And what we now need to do is make sure that they are implemented and let me just close um on on this oh i said khan i’ve lost my final slide but what i wanted to say is look it’s an incredible joy for us at the world resources institute to

Work with the world bank to work with all of you on this really remarkable agenda together there has never been a time that is as exciting as this that has as much opportunity as this in terms of jobs in terms of of inclusiveness in terms of just

Um making life better and healthier and more joyful and and all of you on this call today you know are at the very center of this and now let’s turn this back to femi and to the wonderful panel we’re about to hear thank you femi andrew steer is president and ceo of wri

Co-host of transforming transportation with the world bank andrew you inspired some questions hold tight this is a speed round because we want to get on with the rest of the session but jeff olson says hearing that walking and cycling as global priorities in both opening keynotes so yours andrew and also

President david malpass of the world bank gives us hope for the future thank you thoughts andrew instantly go ahead uh yes um we’ve had several million years of so-called civilization and um the best we seem to have come up with is being stuck in your car for two hours getting to work

Um this is not um civilization’s greatest achievement for a hundred years we’ve been designing cities around automobiles and we want to start designing them around people and and on the panel we’ve got some leaders that believe exactly in this my goodness me we do not need to get into our

Automobiles we can get into public transport and we can cycle at the moment things are simply not set up for that but they are moving in that direction and the example i gave from bogota um really quite remarkable but that’s happening in more than 400 cities around the world

Thanks andrew you did an excellent job at the speed round thank you very much andrew steer is the ceo and president of wri co-host of transforming transportation with the world fang andrew thank you very much and hello panel i love this panel such a good panel a-listers all of them for plenty

One how perfect let me say hello to stincher macta to yvonne and also to uh kailash and they are going to actually do their formal introductions to you and say who they are why they are important in this conversation so let me start with mata right to do your full introduction tell everybody

Who you are hi family my name is matt job i’m vice president for infrastructure and digital development at the world bank and we’ve been uh organizing this event for many years partnering with wri and i’m really thrilled today to be here and be part of this conversation and to see you again

Nice to have you minister vertova nice to see you do your full introduction tell everybody why you’re important in this conversation well thank you so much for uh for the introduction i’m minister for the environment in the netherlands and responsible for carbon uh transport decarbonization and also chair of the transport decorahization alliance

And i think andrew just outlined in his sheets exactly why this is such an urgent issue to to tackle and i’m very much looking forward to exchanging views with the other panelists absolutely i am too akisoya nice to see you in this conversation please introduce yourself to the people around

The world who are watching transforming transportation right now what do they need to know about you hello there madame i’ll come back to madame we have a little slight connection problem which it’s okay i am expecting again transportation yes audience around the world because we are connecting all over so that is a

Possibility stand by for that but that is what i do and that is why i’m here for you okay uh kailash galer nice to see you will you tell everybody who you are why are you important to this conversation introduce yourself okay tyler you i believe you’re muted if

You see that little panel at the bottom and it’s got a little yeah there we go all right take take two good evening good evening i’m minister for transport uh delhi capital of uh india and one of the largest democracies in india in the world and i think um

Very challenging times we are having and i i think thank you wri and world bank during this pandemic we are here to discuss very important things and i think very exciting things are happening in the transport sector we are coming up with electric buses electric charging infrastructure making public transport

More secure and safe so that people switch to public transport and reduce the pollution as well thank you thank you i am just thinking back panelists to a year ago to transforming transportation a little over a year ago uh in january and we all gathered at the world bank

And people were concerned about how we fly less and pollution and just a year later this is an extraordinary situation if you’re if you’re working in sustainable transport um and transforming transport this is an amazing place to be i’m hearing a lot of people saying build back better build back greener i’m

Wondering how much fear that you pick up you cannot show fear you have to be fearless but if you were candid about what this last i’m just going to say 10 months have been like in the transforming transportation sector what would you honestly say no filter

Not yeah my cutie up thank you very much you you’re right the time has changed i in many in many dimensions last year at the same time i was talking about totally different things with a different emphasis what is central today is the conversation is the recovery rebuilding better but rebuilding differently

Climate change is an organizing framework for all of us to discuss transportation because it touched as many dimensions of our work in transportation inclusion sustainability and gender equality if we don’t talk about climate change and include it in transport we are forgetting all these dimensions it talks about different

Also part of the society mayors are essential in the policy that we are implementing in transport the private sector will be driving the process and without the organizing framework of government will not be able to do that and more than ever science is important and essential

In what we are doing we also learned that we’re going to talk about transport in an isolated way today these crisis have shown us that digital is an essential complement to be able to have some the proper solution for transmutation we understand that now without a clean energy we cannot talk about

Uh transportation of tomorrow what we learn also is that we need to work cross-sectorally it’s not only a matter of building road of each of a working engineering solution but we need to think about the social contract which is organizing societies lastly we learn also that there is at last a

Few years that emerging economies are doing a great job in pushing the agenda in terms of renewable uh energy and renewable mode of of of transportation we have seen that uh a lot of the pickup on solar has been coming for developing country we have seen a lot of

The integrative type of of uh transportation i’ve been innovating in in developing countries we’ve seen in emerging countries a lot of interesting solutions and we and these guys give us hope that the growth that we will have in transportation is always be be built on innovations that we are seeing

In developing countries now as you are moving forward the big question is the financing of courses and the npc conversation is central to it and i will be able to come back to that i i now see that the connection with mayor akis sawyer who is the mayor of freetown

Freetown in sioux alone is now working so i’m going to take that opportunity to welcome the mayor to the conversation this this idea of the imminent crisis you have been on climate change for a long time what difference is the last few months made to you made to freetown if any

Femi um i think there’s been a focusing of everyone’s minds um the focus of course um rightly so has been on the pandemic on covid um but in a way it’s actually created space um for conversations around climates to also be elevated um you mentioned that last year

Um you know everybody was gathered you may recall that i actually called in and um into this meeting last year virtually i did that because of diary clashes but what we’re learning is that you know there is the opportunity for the world to be configured differently here in freetown um the covet crisis

Has had the biggest impact on the coveted crisis has been on the economy for now um the second wave is is is looking different and and sadly our case numbers are much higher now than they were before but from the perspective of what that means some climate um and the green conversation

And you know sort of how that ties into transportation i think what we are seeing is that the pressure to bring change in the context of poverty in the context of poor regulations in the context of a dynamic which isn’t staying still means that the policy conversations and the financing

Conversations are really critical there’s another dimension to this which i think is really important and that is what are the levers for change things have to move faster further and therefore sometimes the decisions can’t just be left to when a government wants to do something if there are innovations at the city level

Which can be scaled how do we come to together collectively to see those happening in freetown we are promoting a move and i think this is a real opportunity for many countries in the in this we have public transport but not in the way that it’s thought of

So most of our public transport is low occupancy 80 of people don’t have cars so we have an opportunity now to leapfrog to move from poor low occupancy when i say i mean heavy polluting um old vehicles motors motorbikes to leapfrog to clean mass transit solutions such as cable cars

So i think we’ve had space in covid um to think more to talk more there’s been less flying um but there’s also been more conversations around crisis and how we adapt to crisis both from the perspective of the link between um climate and health um and the need

For the policy conversations and the financing conversations to be much more much more backed by levers of change by influence externally and internally mary as you were speaking minister van beltram she was writing down notes minister what’s on your notepad share it with us well many things i must say

Um i loved of course the introduction made by andrew steer about the five opportunities and i i the the saying that there is an opportunity for the world to be configured differently that is what i was writing down because i thought that is so true this is chaos and opportunity at the

Same time and we need to use this this period of chaos to build back differently and i’m always amazed if i hear from free time what you what the concepts are you are thinking about how you are basically saying that innovation financing and policies should all come together the need for

Financing i think is very clear what i also really concur is that we need to go faster and further we have no time to waste i think this session is called about the imminent crisis it’s already here it is already here so it’s not imminent it’s here

And we need to we need to turn this around and we can turn it around and i think public transport active transportation are going to play crucial roles both in the developing world and also in the developed world we need to use public transport more smart we need to use active transportation

Much more it is good for climate but it also has a direct effect on health in our inner cities and that’s why i’d also like to add to the conversation the need to start working on freight because as the presentation by wri showed transport phrase transportation is taking up a lot

Of our emissions and if we can decrease those heavy loaders of co2 emissions we can clean up climate but we can also clean up the air in the inner cities where so many people live together in an often very very polluted environment in the netherlands alone one in five children that suffers from

Asthma has this because of air pollution and that’s only the surface of the iceberg so we have so much to gain by decarbonizing transport if we want to go fast enough then we need also ambitious targets so i would say the netherlands has said 2030 for all passenger cars

I think we should also say for freight let’s see if we can go for 30 in 2030 make taking a big dent out of the pie that we really need to eat all together we need to bring this down much faster than we are doing right now and if it is

Possible the technology is there minister uh in new delhi i i’m thinking about what is your imminent crisis regarding climate and mobility or are you already in it as the minister from the netherlands said like there’s no imminent crisis we’re in crisis right now no i think as rightly pointed out by

The different speakers we have seen unprecedented times very challenging times i think the whole world is facing the the kovit 19 pandemic fortunately in delhi we have seen three peaks and right now the positivity of rate is quite less and things are very much under control but as a transport minister

I think we saw very challenging times when delhi was in lock complete lockdown for almost a month there was no public transport on roads and slowly when we opened up the demand for public transport we we have around at the moment we have around six and a half thousand buses on

In in delhi and we commute uh roughly around 50 lakh passengers every day Delhi has has taken very bold steps in last five years in in delhi we have a very dynamic and energetic uh chief minister mr arvind kejriwal under whose leadership we all work and we have set a very challenging targets for ourselves keeping in mind that the public transport has to

Seem differently and as the president and ceo mr andrew also pointed out that the entire uh we we apart from the climate change i think uh we are looking for a system change and as he rightly pointed out that almost the last hundred years we have been uh building cities around automobile

I think this is the time now the time has come that we should build cities of places around people and i think what is um minister what minister excuse me what what does that mean if you’re building cities around people how does that change if anyone knows yeah i’m there thinking wow

How do you how do you do that i’m i’m i’m uh coming to it um in last five years we have taken uh very interesting steps and we had uh wonderful results and i i think i would be missing if i don’t mention the delhi office of wri we have had

Continued and sustained support from mr opi agrawal who is associated with wri mr amit but you would be surprised to know that in last five years we have been able to cut down 25 of uh pollution by taking very uh simple steps in august uh 2020 we launched a very ambitious electric uh

Vehicle policy and i would also like to share that from august to january we have added almost 6000 electric uh vehicle on delhi roads uh six thousand uh almost 2500 beneficiaries and we have set a very ambitious target for next five years that we would like all new vehicles which will be sold

۲۵ percent we want uh electric vehicles so that should that will add up to almost uh five lakh vehicles now again by how we have to go forward and how we can transform these cities and i think uh the mr andrew also pointed out uh on that that

There has to be commitment the the finances uh we have uh subsidized the purchase of new electric vehicles so that more and more people are are motivated and we have given them incentive uh if they if they purchase a new electric vehicle then uh delhi government uh is going to give

Them a substantial subsidy again we have a dedicated uh electric vehicle cell to look into any issues which are coming up we have a state electric vehicle board we have se we have separately we have a dedicated uh electric vehicle fund so that will look into all the issues which are coming

Uh from day-to-day operations um and at the same time we if we don’t have a ecosystem an environment which is friendly that will promote electric vehicles we have also set a goal that every three kilometer radius we want to have electric charging station and we have set a target that almost

This is this is an extraordinary amazing ambitious plan i i’m going to jump in here because we’ve got lots of questions for you lots of questions for your co-panelists i am wondering though on this electrifying delhi plan what is the biggest challenge you know you noted we’re going to give us

A big big incentives for people to turn into and turn over and bring on electric vehicles what’s the biggest challenge you’re really really the biggest challenge the biggest challenge right now i think it is the the high cost of electric vehicles and i have been saying this last almost four to five years

That till the time we don’t bring down the the cost of electric vehicles it is in reach of a common man i think the the first and foremost the most important is the cost of electric vehicle and second is the that confidence the uh until unless the person buying

Electric vehicle he has confidence that he’ll be able to charge his electric vehicle without any problem and that is why i mentioned that we have set a target for ourselves that we want to have electric charging station public private within a radius of three kilometers we want to set up our charging station

And we are also giving subsidy an incentive to any person who is setting up a private charging station also and i think very soon we will have a very robust uh electric charging uh station network in entire delhi okay i have a question for you and i’m opening the questions to the floor

The floor you’ve been giving me questions anyway so thank you very much this is from matthias if in india you subsidize electric vehicles you are initiating a regressive policies benefiting the rich right question mark are you uh this question is added to me or the other yes yes yes because it’s electrifying

Vehicles maybe the vehicles are very expensive only the rich can afford them and so then this is a green policy that is applying only rich people just a quick response uh we as you as you rightly said we don’t want this uh policy or benefit to go uh to rich people

We have set a target of uh the vehicle has to be within the limit of 15 lakhs if the vehicle is above 15 lakhs then that person is not getting the subsidy so very expensive cars very expensive vehicles will not get the subsidy it is only the vehicles which are within

The reach of a common man only those people will get the subsidy thank you minister melissa i’m going to move the conversation on a little bit i will come back to you thank you very much for that contribution this is a really interesting question madam minister and also madame

Mayer the pandemic this is from leah wright hi leah the pandemic has shown a steady decrease in the use of public transportation with many people speculating that ridership will continue to get worse while efficient public transport is a sustainable option the research has shown that the overall perception is getting worse

Are there any suggestions to deal with this problem to encourage people to use public transport madam mayor you start first well i’m just going to start off by saying that the problems are very different depending on the part of the world you’re in um so you know people who are staying

Away from public transport are people who had cars before the outbreak or who could get cars as i said earlier 80 of our residents do not own vehicles um so public transport is not an option our challenge is the mode of public transport which exists now low occupancy old vehicles so there are

Three main types of public transport you have our minibuses what known as puerto portas usually fairly terribly overcramped very old as well because again we don’t have policies that uh deter the importation of old vehicles that’s also true of the taxis which will take a maximum of three four people

And then um the most common is the okada the motorbike or the tuk-tuk which we call kekes so we’re not talking about people staying away from public transport and we’re talking about people having no option what we are seeking to do now is to provide an option

Which as as the economy grows as the middle class grows what tends to happen is you have more vehicle ownership we want to ensure that we get in before that happens and provide mass transit as i said the cable car that we’ve been working on for the last year and a half and

We’re just putting in we’re just seeing okay so mayor iman ivan uh akisoya has just frozen madame so so i’m going to come back to you just as you were about to explain something very very exciting let me go back to the questions and go to madam minister this idea of

People fleeing public transport have you seen this in the netherlands how do you encourage them to come back well yes we have also seen this in the netherlands but what we are doing is making sure that public transport as a vital sector remains available to all those that are dependent on it

So i’m currently heavily subsidizing our public transport sector to ensure that a problem in the short term does not turn into a problem in the longer term because in a few years time we will be needing an enormous amount of public transport again we have a growing population our cities are densifying

And the only way to keep those cities built around people another wonderful expression that was just mentioned on the panel the way if we want to keep those cities livable we need to use public transport as the primary mode of transportation together with cycling and walking so we

Are taking let’s say a little bit of a longer perspective to make sure that we are not pennywise pound foolish where it concerns our public sector and i think that this is going to be play a crucial role and we are also actively at some point stimulating people to go

Back to the public transportation sector but that is in light of the current covert situation in the netherlands still a little bit too early thank you madam minister matthew we’re having a really um yeah go ahead go ahead go ahead i i would like to add one thing which you mentioned that how

Uh the public transport uh you can encourage more and more people to use public transport mayor also free town also mentioned that 80 percent people don’t own cars so it means people are dependent on public transport as i mentioned uh delhi india one of the largest democracies and population

I think is our strength and the most important resource we have we we under the dynamic leadership of chief minister nike jiwal we we took a very bold step we made public transport free for women in entire daily in all buses and we had very encouraging results we had very encouraging feedback um

Because they were why because why we took this step because this is because this is also connected with the safety and security of women passengers so we made public transport absolutely free for women and any female in delhi can just get on to any public transport in buses in delhi without worrying about

The fare and can change buses any number of times and we had very i think on this scale because if we in if we talk about the percentage we have around 30 percent of uh the entire all the passengers we have women contributing to almost uh

۳۰ percent so i thought i’ll just uh share this experience and the because this has been this has been not been experimented in the entire world on this scale maybe a few cities in europe where you have public transport free eye i was visiting brussels and a few other paris and other

So i met you people who had read about this scheme and i think the other because see public transport cannot be a source of revenue i have been also raising this at different forums um if the if public transport is expensive then i think it is going out of reach of

A common man public transport has to has to be cheap it has to be reliable it has to be efficient it and it has to be i think in some way be subsidized in one way or the other by either corporation or by the municipal government or by the

State government or by the federal government madam minister go ahead yes well we did we we have a large amount of state subsidies at the moment and also regional subsidies i would like to come back to the situation of the polluting vehicles and let’s say the the standards of vehicles

And one element that has made a really big difference in europe when it comes to cleaning up the fleet is that european union has set standards for producers in what they put on the market and this amount of maximum amount of co2 that such a vehicle can emit is going

Down and down and down thereby forcing those manufacturers to start manufacturing zero emission vehicles that are affordable because if they produce zero emission vehicles that are too expensive then not enough are going to be sold to bring down the average co2 emission so this has turned out to be a very

Effective instrument of bringing down the costs of e-vehicles we even had companies subsidizing the sale of electric vehicles in the netherlands because they needed to sell more to live up to the average co2 emission so setting standards can be a very very powerful tool from governments in cleaning up

Transport and driving down emissions either co2 emissions or other polluting emissions and that can really help to make the change bringing in let’s say the producers and making them take responsibility also for what is on the market matchy let me bring you into this conversation here this is from ely it is suggesting

Cities for people and more improved roads for cars public transport and micro mobility should be a top priority for future financing of projects what’s your take on that mattia and i’m also thinking about how the world bank is supporting transport decarbonization and how you’re promoting more

Livable cities i think we can kind of wrap that all into one but first of all cities for people and good roads for cars thoughts thank you very much one thing that i would like to to to say is that the future of work will be influenced by the

Covenanting crisis so the pattern of movement of people in city would be different so it might be that we’ll be moving as much as we moved before it might be that people will be moving in much shorter area and be working from home or from collectively so i think that in modeling

A little bit the demand for transportation this crisis is bringing a lot of new uh elements that we need to take into account secondly as we are moving about uh electric vehicle we need to think about greening uh reading the energy that’s why i was thinking saying earlier that is a multi-sexual approach

If you have e-vehicles and you continue producing energy which is emitting a lot of co2 we will not be solving the problem that we’ll try to address so as we are working on that we need to work also on the uh energy transition that’s why i personally involved with

The energy transition council going to come 26 as as much as i’m working also with uh with minister stan stingy for with uh to build that coalition to green transportation and to move people to mass transportation i think we need not to forget also that in a lot of countries transport is about

Informal sector how to bring the informal sector to be able to move to mass transit is the big challenge such for instance in a lot of our projects that world bank is implementing in rapid burst transit one of the challenge that we are facing when you come in a country was informal

The mini buses which are called matatu in kenya senegal and they have the name in liberia where the main mean of transport when you try to move uh people from these small buses uh a low density to brts with are transporting large number of people uh you have a social question to address

Because these people were employed in that is that segment of the transport industry we need to be employed in a more formal way and in a way which is different so that transition is something important and we are working with so we are not only bringing a technical solution

Through the brt or mass mass transit but we are also addressing the social dimension of it particularly when it comes to the informal sector i think also that it will be will be important for us to focus on the low hanging fruit the issue of regulating the used car export

To developing country is an important element in if we want to really green transportation it will be it’s important that more advanced economy are having standard implementing it but we need to make sure that those car which are not anymore allowed to to move and to circulate in a in a

More advanced country are not exported to developing countries and transferring the problem in countries which have less resources and less a less stronger institution as we are going i think if you take a lesson of the previous cup the previous club didn’t have always a full alignment between what was discussed at the

Sectoral level by the ministry of transportation the policies that we put in place in that sector and what was discussed also that minister of energy and the mix of environment so we think that one of the lessons we can learn from the cop21 is that this is in this new round of

Ndcs we need to make sure that the policies that are being developed by the ministries of transportation by the ministries of energy are clearly reflected in the objective and target that we have we we having lastly we are an opportunity to my view to leapfrog in a lot of developing countries and to

Leapfrog we need to address the financing uh when we talk about countries to do this this massive change that we are talking about they talked about financing and in the nbc’s we have the unconditional and conditional targets so we need to make sure that the conditional targets means of

The target that can be reached if money is put at the table are really supportive and the international community thinks about the financial architecture to support his transition in a much faster way madame it’s good to have you back in the conversation as matthew was mentioning leapfrog that’s exactly what you were talking

About you were talking about the cable car system how imminent it was can you pick up because i can always visualize it it sounds like sirio and freetown in particular could be this visionary amazing city that is going to strike us when we get to freetown because it has a transport system that

The rest of the world doesn’t have please continue so um the transport system would be picking up on the experience of medellin and bogota’s cities that we’ve studied we’ve discussed with them and working with them on on how to make this uh happen so uh

We’re not going to be the first um but certainly to the point that um was made just before the the by mctart in his statement the leapfrogging this is precisely the opportunity that i see um and i and i think that uh the the most important piece here

Is around funding availability so we’ve literally spent a year and a half um just trying to raise the resources we need and the government supports we need because we can’t do it purely at the city level in order for us to um do the full feasibilities we’re talking about a fairly

Small initial pilot uh um what you call it line um of about 35 kilometers but it will be it will be transformational informational from the perspective of reduction in emissions trans and to you to the point that was made about the informal sector um one of the things which perhaps we’re

Not making enough of is the increase in economic productivity that will come from these mass transit systems the fact that i will now be able to get across town in 15 minutes instead of in two hours that increase in economic productivity um also creates potential for more employment and that shouldn’t be lost

In this discourse about loss of jobs coming out of the informal sector but i think i want to just end on this the key to these changes is financing and policy and i i want to reiterate there’s no the thing about the climate crisis is that it affects

All of us no matter where we are so if we have you know emissions continuing in the south it will impact the north um and vice versa so we need to work together we cannot have vehicles being exported to the global south which are not fit for purpose in the in

The west in the north india industrialized countries and at the same time we can’t have um turn a blind eye to situations where there is the move or the will there’s got to be the funding to support the rhetoric at the international level when we go to cop it can’t just be saying

Let’s do this and let’s do that and then those who have the wherewithal to do it can move forward there’s got to be recognition that as with covid if you the expression leave no one behind has to become real as with covid if the investment isn’t being made

Everywhere then the problem is still going to affect everyone i want to bring this is for my family to say one word because i really would like to say that in this what the cove 19 really touches off is partnership with minister senji and other colleagues we are working together and building a

Position and what we need what the mayor even just said is is extremely important so why as we we are discussing after we secure stingy uh a session at top 26 will be focusing on what this question is of being on transition a rapid burst transit of taking the

Human dimension of what we are talking about will be essential and we are really simply uh after i don’t know if i will be able to come back in the discussion to say that let’s join that coalition sister coalition we have in the session the way we organize it in this

Transporting if we have a session on health just after with our colleague mamta murthy we have a session with the mayors we’ll be sharing experience and telling them what work and we need to listen to them and bring their message to the cop 26 and we will have the private sector talking

And my colleague stephanie from ifc will be approaching so we have this time really i think a lot of star aligned and building a coalition will be helping us to make a big difference at the cop 26. there’s a chance i see a quick thing can i say

So the world bank you continue to talk about rapid bus rapid transport brts we need to be listening really listening and realizing that all cities have different different even geographic layouts vrts are difficult in a city like freetown there’s a broadband project for brt but we have an overcrowded city which has

Evolved with time with no planning so actually being able to have the space the physical space the cost of that you know so when we say we want to do a cable car and the world bank says we want to do a brt we’ve got the mountains we’ve got the

You know we’ve got the elevation we need real listening if this conversation is really going to make a difference so let me just plug that for the world bank thank you real listening okay we have that little viral moment for today thank you madame rare all right this this

Now we’re going to be doing some real listening everybody all right okay this is really important uh and i love this because it’s shaking up our conversation just as madame may just there this is from annie let’s get our priorities right let’s get people to where they need to go safely affordably

Using high quality public transport public private informal doesn’t matter walking biking get people away from cars electrify what’s left ha get rid of the cars madam minister you go first well yes if you get rid of cars at least in the inner cities you clean up you clear up so much space

For people so if we want to build our cities for people we need to make sure that we make good use of the very limited space so yes let’s make sure that there is an attractive alternative and that it’s the easiest alternative to go like walking cycling or using a public transport

And then we can really rebuild let’s say our inner cities there’s one point which i would love to pick up a little bit from our previous discussion which is about the second hand cars that are being exported i really think that we need to come together there i was part of commissioning a

Study that indeed highlighted the states of the cars that are being exported but i cannot solve that alone from the netherlands we need to do this in partnership and if we all want to clean up those vehicles then we can do that jointly so that’s an offer let’s see how we can

Work together in the context of cleaning up transportation everywhere because that was a very true word for the climate it doesn’t matter where it is emitted it’s all bad so we need for all of us to clean up transport everywhere and real listening is going to be key

Because the only way to speed up is to make sure that you adapt to the local situation and find what works there so let’s try and find out what works and i mean i like that idea that initiative is it something that you just thought up on the spot or do you know

That it is possible to export cars for developing nations but export clean cars well we did a study and i think uh also together with uh undp recently launched Showing the state of the cars that were being exported sometimes unsafe cars cars that were really unsafe and they were being exported let’s say as being scrapped but they were being imported as vehicles so this is i think where the problem lies we can only avoid exportation if there’s also a

Barrier to the importation and so we need to find a way let’s say for our customs uh officials to join forces and to make sure that we control what’s going on they do control us going in to make sure that transportation is safe everywhere and in the context of the undp we are

Working on this and anybody who wants to join very welcome minister galot let’s go back to that radical thought get rid of cars as militia transport in delhi would that give you sleepless nights oh yeah it does it does we have plenty of cars in delhi on

On the roads and i think the only way out if you really want to reduce the number of cars uh shift more and more uh people to public transport i think the only way out is if we have a robust and sustainable public transport whether it is brt or whether it is the

Mass rapid transport system or many buses or whether any any kind of public transport so i think the the first and foremost and most important thing is to have a a very efficient and robust public transport which again brings up the challenge that of the finances i think a lot of

Cities and places they struggle with the finances and apart from the having a robust public transport i think what really will make this uh shift is the approach and the attitude of people as well that it is absolutely fine to use public transport it is not that only poor people

Will use public transport and lastly i think um being a politician and being a minister i think the most important thing is to have a political will to really change the way the entire public transport system all over world is conceived i think if we have the political will we can surely

Bring about that change and what exactly we are talking about that the cities should be built around uh people thank you political wealth minister but also kitambi who is watching this session he says that he’s reading the comments he’s watching the session he knows that one important point has been omitted

I believe that culture is one of the points to be considered the simple example could be the mentality of considering cars as the solution of transport mobility in some areas of africa the idea of culture mata can you pick up on that yes i i i’m speaking from uh from

I’m senate greece i lived in nairobi also so i i you know i have a sense a little bit of uh i think it’s it’s it’s is uh is also the quality of the of the offer when you have a public service public transportation of quality people

Are ready to shift i believe with obviously a lot of sensitization and explaining the importance of doing so to shift from car to to uh to public transport because if you take a city like nairobi that or the time you spend in in traffic is so it’s so is

Is so important that whoever is given an opportunity to have a short or shorter journey uh would be we would be taking that opportunity i think that what is missing often is a quality of that supply and i think that as we’ll be going with improving that quality

Uh ensuring that there is no gender-based violence in this public transport uh as long as we ensure that uh is well regulated is that i’m very optimistic that people will be able to shift from individual car to more collective means of transportation as we saw in europe that’s what happened in europe

Uh people are moving now a lot of people in in large cities in europe don’t own a car it’s because they know that they can access a safe means of transportation which will be available reliable and safe madam minister i want to put this question to you this comes from

Bianca bianca says how do we communicate outside our transport crowd the more complex ideas of decarbonization not only av e-vehicles and this is something that you are doing in the netherlands you are working on decarbonization how did you share that information how do you communicate that how do you

Educate people well thank you very much for that and i think it is making sure that people are aware that decarbonizing transport is about creating more creating more clean air good for their health so there is even on a daily basis working on climates you are walking with your toddler in the city

Center you see those buses with all those those fumes and it’s your child inhaling that and you yourself inhaling there is no getting away from air no getting away from air pollution and getting that message across let’s say opened a different group of people to listen to

Why it is so important to decarbonize transport it has a lot of benefits it has also helped of course that there is much more awareness now of climate change and the need to tackle climate change because it’s the world of future generations that we are shaping right now

We are the last the person who can do something about it uh the first generation who really knows how bad it is and the last generation that can still make a change and it’s also that appeal to the broader issue at stake but also the optimistic message

That there’s things that we can change i mean it’s it’s more silent it’s cleaner so basically it’s a very positive agenda that we are driving together and uh so yes it’s difficult yes there’s but there’s also many options there are many opportunities there’s not one way for everybody

So let’s find your way to decarbonize and make sure you inform about the health benefits uh on the way mata do you want to come in on this because i know it’s something the world bank is trying to encourage countries to do how are you doing that

Let’s give you an example if you go to a village and you you bring pv solar you bring electricity to a village if you never had electricity but at the same time they can charge e-vehicle which can move people from the village to the smaller city this what decarbonized should be meaning for

People in developing countries so it’s not something which is a which is uh abstract but something very concrete and that’s not i think that’s why we need to bring integrated solution to people because if they have a little bit of electricity but don’t have transportation is that transportation of that

Electricity these have electricity are not access to internet or to broadband their way of living is not sufficient and i know that everyone as a mayor is facing that every day when you go to your constituency and talk to people said tori manamaya i need all of these i need help i need

Education i need transportation i need so how we can leverage all this so what do you think we are we are doing for me is to to to to to share uh infrastructure you will see how uh uh we surprised to see that in the in the same place you have

Opposed which is used for for putting at a mobile or mobile antenna another one which you use for for electricity another one for the water sector and all that could cost a lot of money to the community so what we are pushing people to do is to share infrastructure to make sure

That we’re coming to the to the to the to the citizen with a solution which is less costly third we also need not to forget adaptation adaptation has been something very important in in what you are doing you’re talking about mitigating emission but also as things are moving and we

Take time to bring them to the level we want we need to adapt to the new to that new new reality and and it’s something that particularly developing countries are asking for how we can help us to adapt to this climate change while we are taking these important uh measures i think that

My main message is that we have now a a window we need to seize this is a window where the children in the street are asking for a winner for a greener world they have convinced us that this is a way the world should should be done we are seeing the cost

Of a renewable energy going down drastically we are seeing a very fast adoption of new technologies in transport we are seeing iot we are seeing all these things happening so we have an opportunity where we have a convergence of technology adoption which is accelerated a social contract which is telling us to do

Things differently and and it will be leading to my view to more inclusive world and a world which is more sustainable speakers we hit the final question and for this final question i will get all of your responses but you only have 30 seconds to respond so extra challenge this is from gabriella

When we talk about prioritizing public transport walking and cycling we need to rethink the shape of our cities how are you all approaching this minister galot i think uh i am again going to we must at least restart building this cities around people and again we have taken a very bold uh

Decision delhi government we have converted the one of the most congested and uh very old place in delhi called chandni chowk it’s absolutely now absolutely free of any vehicle any any motorized vehicle and the entire place has been converted people friendly and for pedestrians i think this is

One of the experiment which delhi government has has done and it has been very successful very widely appreciated and uh i think we are going to take this uh thing to the rest of the other parts of the daily okay scale it up all right thank you so much minister van welter

Rethinking the shape of cities in the netherlands how would you do that are you doing it well when we are rebuilding uh in our inner cities we’re creating less parking places and more space for bikes and biking and uh public transport are the primary modes of transport

In that in that quarter so we’re designing for public transport and cycling cleaning up more space giving more space to people we are broadening our cycling lanes we are creating zero emission zones in our inner cities cleaning up the air and we are also helping people to produce

Uh e-bikes making it easier and more attractive also to to take distances up to 15 kilometers on a daily basis which is very easy in a flat country like the netherlands but that is why real listening is important because in freetown there might be a bit more of a challenge even on ebike

Madame real listening man i just saw you in 30 seconds how are you rethinking the way that freetown looks i am so glad this was the last question because i was just thinking that what we haven’t talked about is urban planning land use planning management urban of the urban space

Which is critical to getting this right we are as a one example um we are with funding from the city of zurich big shout out to my partner city there um doing a regeneration of our central business district and part of that will include introducing for the first time ever

A pedestrianized area but i want us to also talk for just two seconds on the root causes of the urban sprawl that we see in so many cities on the continent you are not going to have the solutions we’re talking about without being able to control that

And that is often because of problems with land ownership often because of cross mandates between city governments and local and national governments and also because of course of rural urban migration without addressing these things you can have pockets of nice areas green with your pedestrianized streets but your

General state of the city continues to be one which is ineffective and unhealthy and not really speaking to what all the things that we’ve been talking about from the perspective of greening and the perspective of more efficiency so we’ve got to deal with those root causes the challenges of

Urban planning within this context of african cities thank you speakers for your time today we really appreciate you this is the end of plenary one session thank you speakers you did an excellent job

ID: eIPDrcqK3Kk
Time: 1612553187
Date: 2021-02-05 22:56:27
Duration: 01:28:09

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