Title:ادغام زیرساخت سبز در پارچه شهری پیتسبورگ

این پخش اینترنتی در حال حاضر فقط برای مشاهده در دسترس است و دیگر برای اعتبارات AICP CM قابل استفاده نیست. با حمایت: پنسیلوانیا شرح فصل: سازمان آب و فاضلاب پیتسبورگ اخیراً یک مطالعه جامع طراحی شهری حوزه فاضلاب را برای ادغام زیرساخت‌های سبز با عملکرد بالا در تلاش‌های طراحی و برنامه‌ریزی شهری شهر تکمیل کرده است. طرح‌های فاضلاب، عناصر کلیدی را در ایجاد سیستم‌های GI شبکه‌ای شناسایی می‌کنند و نشان می‌دهند که چگونه این بهبود زیرساخت‌ها از مزایای اضافی محله استفاده می‌کنند. این ارائه بر این تمرکز دارد که چگونه سیستم‌های شبکه‌ای یا مبتنی بر شید برای مدیریت آب باران با مهندسی، ابزارهای تصمیم‌گیری مبتنی بر داده‌ها برای ایجاد مناظر، مکان‌های شهری و پروژه‌ها به شیوه‌ای قابل تکرار پیوند می‌دهند.

قسمتي از متن فيلم: You hello everyone and welcome to the webcast my name is christine dorsey davis i’m the executive director of the Ohio chapter of APA and chair of AP A’s New Urbanism division and I’m your webcast my reader today oh wow it’s Friday the 13th and we will be hearing the presentation integrating green

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Webcast web page ohio planning that org slash planning webcast okay with that i am going to turn it over to today’s speakers to get us started okay Christine you should receive a popup message so go ahead and click yes and you’re good to go and make sure that you

Put it into slideshow mode perfect thank you great can everybody at the Christine you can see our full slide yeah it looks great okay great welcome everybody thanks for joining us my name is Christine mondo and I’m with evolve environment architecture here in Pittsburgh and I’m

Here with my name is Meagan Ziegler and I’m with the Pittsburgh Water and Sewer Authority so today we’re gonna walk you through an introduction to Pittsburgh’s green first plan where I’m going to walk you through a little bit behind the planning process the planning process is

Ongoing but we had a big push towards understanding how to implement our green infrastructure project strategically shed wide so I’m gonna tell you a little bit about that and then Megan’s going to tell you more about how that’s been implemented and she’s going to share some really good information on specific

Projects and ones that were only thought about during the planning phase are now coming online and so it’s a really exciting time for us so I know we’re talking to you a group of planners and and as planners were all aware of some of these issues and probably many of you

Are from legacy cities like Pittsburgh where we have combined soar and we know that in Pittsburgh we it’s a little over a century ago that our infrastructure was created and it’s time for a renewal of that interest sure I want to point out that these pictures were taken as part of a an

Effort to document how heroic this infrastructure was for the city when it was being put in and to remind everybody that planners and an infrastructure was once appreciated greatly so we’re hoping that that comes back again as in to the public’s perspective we know that this

Is what what was the the appearance of our streams and waterways previously prior to having infrastructure getting the waterway as quickly as possible was really important and so they set about to build very labour-intensive been very massive infrastructure and of course pittsburgh was a very different city

Than with lots of industrial users and a pattern of in population that’s very different from what we have today so we created a single system at the time this single system delivered all the water directly to the rivers later we built interceptor pipes and those intercept their pipes run along our rivers and

Took that water into a sewer treatment plant so we’re actually have two generations of infrastructure that we’re working with one is an original conveyance system and then a 1960s interceptor system that of course takes everything and delivers it to conventional sewage treatment as we know

It today so we know all of you know this public isn’t always really aware of how a combined sewer system works and the difference between dry flow and wet flow some places in the system there isn’t that much of a difference and there still is overflow even at the slightest

Event and we get images like this in some cases there is no door where we have raw sewage flowing into our rivers so for those of you that haven’t been to Pittsburgh we have three rivers technically they’re – they become a third one and you know these are these

Are our pride and joy now if they once were our highway for industry and now there that people want to spend time so addressing this is an issue so the green first plan was really to create the next century green infrastructure specifically stormwater infrastructure one city Three Rivers clean and green

۳۶۵ days this is the way that PWSA talks about it so the the creek clean and green infrastructure assessment is a way of understanding how these smaller projects lead to bigger projects because we know that we can’t solve all of the problems that we have with regards to

Overflows with a number of small projects we need to think at a kind of meso scale macro scale and and micro scale so we began to look at areas where green infrastructure could be the most effective and having worked in other cities where the topography is not quite

The same if you haven’t been to Pittsburgh this is what many of our neighborhoods look like we’re separated by valleys we have a very hilly topography and so that’s going to affect what you see in our solutions we also looked deeply at the system capacity to understand what role green

Infrastructure played relative to a sewage treatment expansion plan and just general upkeep and maintenance cleaning out pipes and understanding the existing storage and conveyance that we have in a system now so green infrastructure is not the only tool we have to solve our overflow problems but this study did

Validate that it’s very important and can help save money for some of those larger investments it’s such as a plant expansion or replacement of pipes so we have a number of issues that are related megan’s can actually talk about screen infrastructure in kind of a conventional

Sense but also some of the things that maybe we don’t think of as green infrastructure we have a lot of stream inflow we have a lot of natural waterways that end up unfortunately in our source system as well and so she’s going to address some of that and we wanted to understand where

You know this stuff sits in each community you know PWSA Pittsburgh Water and Sewer Authority delivers both water and sewage for the city and as such most of the work that they’ve done has been underground in knowing that this is above grade puts this firmly in a planning project scenario

They’ve been infrastructure managers not necessarily dealing with the communities that are above ground and luckily folks like Megan and her background as a designer have really helped this or Authority recognize this so as part of this overall and engineering design and engineering teams came together to look

At the the priority sheds the top sheds these are the top 30 sheds that contribute water to combined sewer overflow to our rivers and thus prioritize them then looking at where we have these other factors and this is really important where is their lower or higher risk risk for flooding from risk

For basement overflow things like that where is their opportunity where do we have projects that are ongoing that we can Street replacement things that we can begin to pile on benefit with that where is their development and high activity in neighborhoods where there is a lot of activity we might lose the

Chance to either get key properties or to implement green infrastructure in development projects if we don’t act on that quickly and then synergies where are there obvious multiple benefits in some cases that might be related to economic justice or it might be related to placemaking and how do we prioritize

Projects because so many places have need and so many communities are actually very interested in green infrastructure out of the 30 we chose six sheds and I’ll just point out here for those the the Oh 27 is on the Ohio River and so all the outflows are numbered from

Zero on up M is the Monongahela River and those outflows M 19 m16 m 29 reflect that and a is the Allegheny River and so those are thus named a 41 a 42 so we’ll probably refer to those pretty quickly because that’s shorthand and I apologize

Will try to reference it back to the river so the methodology began to it while it was while it is a citywide strategy and that map that I just showed is really important to understand the magnitude and how we prioritize across the city system it also is possible to be

Deployed across the region there are communities outside the city of Pittsburgh boundary who contribute to our algaas and sanitary sewerage treatment plant and so PWSA and al Kosan have been working together to understand how the sewer shed methodology can be used across outside of the city of

Pittsburgh so the the method works at three different scales it works at a citywide scale where we’re looking at the sheds the prioritization of the sheds creating a citywide hydrological model and developing strategies and incentives they can be deployed across the city how do you create communities

Of action in the city of round green infrastructure at this show at the source shed scale and I’ll show you an example of this we’re developing community informed sewer shed master plans most people in Pittsburgh think of themselves in their unit of identity as the neighborhood that’s not uncommon

However what’s interesting is that you’ll see that sewer sheds often span neighborhoods because neighborhoods divide themselves up by the valleys so there’s a neighborhood on one side of the valley one on the other however they have a shared asset in these valleys and so our challenge is to

Get people to understand themselves as part of the source yet not just part of their neighborhood and lastly at the project scale I’m we need to look both a defective nosov the independent project but also how that project is part of the connected network we cannot store much on site

Slope soil type and our density and urbanization doesn’t allow us to capture a lot as a matter of fact this year with the amount of rain we’ve had we’ve had a lot of issues of landslides so there can actually be a disincentive to put the

Water back in the ground on site and so we look at networked systems as one of our priorities and how those systems are embedded in our communities and welcomed in our communities is the is the part that the plan is really looking hard hard at and as we get our first projects

Online we’re beginning to understand what those challenges are and what those opportunities are so this is an example of the types of valleys and you can see that stormwater infrastructure of olden days has just gone in here you know waters always determined the identities of our neighborhoods and we

Really need people to re-identify with that water in in it and to understand themselves as part of a shed so to that end I’m gonna walk you through the kind of typical easy to understand shat analysis many of the sheds are more complex than this one but this one is a

Moderate size and is it easy you want to understand so if you look at the development patterns in this in this shed this has four different neighborhoods of four and a half different neighborhoods that it touches and it’s a fairly well built out neighborhood there’s not a lot of vacant

Lots and there’s not a lot of development occurring as a result it’s it’s a fairly stable shed looking at the water lines there is some significant water infrastructure and a great historic story for another presentation as to the integration of our drinking water delivery system into the design of

Our city parks and we’re happy to have those assets but what’s interesting in this leaf-like structure is that this is the water deliveries system and this is the sewer delivery system so this is what happens when you have a pump in power and this is what happens when gravity takes effect so

Basically this is tracing the historic route of the stream and again that’s not uncommon especially in cities that have you topography to deal with the the master model says that there are that gives us the quantities that we need to capture and hold it also can tell us

Where some of the best places might be but this is possible istic it’s not it’s not necessary to capture only these areas but it helped us understand where there might be better potential so the kit of parts that we have in all of these sheds that’s common across all of

Them is that there is generally valley storage and that valley storage is really important for us because it especially in sheds like this you just can’t store very much upstream so this is our chance in this case to take a parking lot that services our zoo and to

Restore that area into a more naturalized and functional hydrologically functional water scape but we can’t just dump the water from the adjacent neighborhoods so we have infrastructure such as what we’ve called a stop and drop in this case here just the way the city develops these are

Large areas that have gotten in filled over a period of time and had Frank serve as public parks they’re both baseball fields ironically but historically they were valleys that minor valleys that were filled in then later to serve as recreation places so capturing water with deep tank storage and significant investment in

Infrastructure there allows us to create a network of conveyance but we need to expand the capture area be cause we don’t get enough water into that Valley system or the stop and drops until we begin to really reach out into the community so there’s a need to create the big infrastructure components

The kind of secondary infrastructure components and then the more easily understood Street scapes and site interventions further up to create a network system so we know that this is might may be what we need to do how do we work with the community to understand how to improve

The places within the community and how do we understand where there’s investment being made so we can stack our infrastructure on top of the existing investment so it ends up in something like this in terms of a series of strategies trying to align with city initiatives like our Complete Streets initiative economic opportunities

Bioswales looking at potentially private property incentives understanding where private property water is going to but also perhaps public right-of-way water coming onto private property as a kind of financial incentive system we need to understand our maintenance protocols both for public right of ways and within the private sector and help people get

Used to new types of systems understanding how we’re working with existing infrastructure and these large-scale systems like subsurface storage and lastly how we deal with long term ecological restoration and I think the thing that is really powerful about all these things is that PWSA of course can’t do this by themselves and so

Really it’s about building a network of people who can help implement these things so what happened as we were going through this project in working with PWSA is that we recognized we were doing these really big urban sheds and citywide plan and there were lots and lots of pop popcorn we called projects

On the ground and they were being done by all sorts of people maybe the the an agency city agency was thinking about something watershed nam profits are hugely effective here in the region to get project started and they had a whole list of things they wanted to do community neighborhoods but there

Is no kind of just a direct flow of these projects and no way of managing all of them so out of doing this citywide plan came into effect a need for an implementation plan a kind of middle level and a shed manager that helps to coordinate all of these players

And partners align their efforts and then make sure that PWSA is able to legally capture the benefit for the purposes of meeting the consent decree and consent orders and and put this back into the system so it represents a kind of rethinking of the structure of the

Agency itself and so I’ll just close my part by telling you a little bit about how it gets integrated into other planning processes and the the first steps of putting that shift in the structure of the agency into helping sister agencies also understand and their role in this – for this one we’re

Gonna look on Monongahela River m-19 in a historic area called Soho Run which of course the Run doesn’t exist anymore but this had a similar type strategy of understanding the network of moving through that how water moves through the community you’ll see here due to large-scale massive urban redevelopment

There’s actually two separate parts to this shed and so you know again these people that are further up on the hill and the top of the screen probably don’t even recognize their water hits the river looking for distributed detention sites and understanding the network that conveys to these detention sites and

Then looking at how this finds its way into the infrastructure that people see whether it’s green conveyance corridors and looking at intersection improvements that are coming through a bus rapid transit project and other city investment in streets looking at what the the stormwater technology is and where that might fall under somebody else’s

Strategies and we’re PWSA might have to take the lead on some of these looking at where private development might be able to not only create kind of public amenities and connection points but also convey water strategically through the neighborhood as well as becoming that zero sites themselves and looking at

Innovative financing models like the pay for success model to say can you package some of these things and put it out there as a as a kind of turnkey product and then looking where there might be large-scale public investment and say a portal park or something here that it’s

Now just a fallow site but could actually become useful in the water story and become a public amenity and so looking at all of these things have to ultimately connect to the river the portal park also needs to get people across 16 lanes of highway the water

Needs to get there people need to get there how can these types of things take a moonscape under the bridge that looks like this and maybe began to have some sort of artistic or park-like consideration of how people move through and finally find their way down to a the

River and matter of fact it’s very difficult for pedestrians and water to make it to the river here so let’s solve both those problems at one time and so all of this is being done as PWSA is thinking about what they need to do to move water and thinking about the

Co-benefits and what else needs to be solved in that neighborhood but in this same way the neighborhood is thinking about what it needs through the process in Uptown of a eco innovation planning process and so the entire district was being planned kind of simultaneous to this and came to many of the same

Conclusions of what they wanted connectivity connection to rails and trails connection to the river and so they were able to work with the PWSA team in order to integrate this work into a zone n’t acquire certain things to be completed and an incentivized in some cases for planning projects within that district

And likewise for their upstream looking at where other implementation plans were being created making sure that key properties are being preserved and that this is being understood as a place making opportunity within that getting to those implementation partners is a hugely hugely important effort and Meghan is going to talk about a project

In m-19 that actually got implemented already and it’s one of the ones that PWSA was able to have more control over so it finds its way into the queue faster all right so following up on the m-19 one of the things that was really interesting about that sewer shed as a

Whole and Christine kind of alluded to it what with the development it did kind of create a natural dam that did start to actually split that sewer shed into two so what we were looking at went the Eid in that particular portion of Uptown this is on the other side more in the

Hill District if you’ve heard of any of these on the back side of the University of Pittsburgh’s campus so Center and Heron was a project that is a city parcel it is so acquisition or PWSA currently does not own any property so a lot of times we are working with both

City real estate or our Urban Redevelopment Authority to identify key project areas and impartial –zz and this is actually something that’s solidified over the last two years where if there if anyone is trying to actually purchase a property they actually will send it to us and kind of we get to sign

Off on it now which is something that is very unusual in some cases but it’s it’s us making strides very quickly to to really be moving these projects forward so this project is an M 19 like I said it is taking about almost two acres of impervious area and redirecting it

– about 585 footlong BIOS well so it is redirecting Street flow there is a lot of impervious runoff coming from the hillside coming from pits campus and also coming from just up up streets but it is its we finished it and had a ribbon-cutting a few weeks ago and so

It’s a really good example of integrated design it’s very aesthetic we you know we did kind of incorporate different components to make sure that it really is kind of a gateway into the neighborhood we incorporated court in steel and the process as well just kind of harkening

Back to Pittsburgh’s kind of the steel industry we have a lot of projects our program has been moving forward pretty significantly over the past four years I’ve been with the authority three and a half years so as we’re scaling up with both resources internally and externally

We’re able to kind of push more projects out so this is one Oh 27 so as part of our green first plan we did kind of pick six particular sewer sheds that we were kind of prioritizing for doing the conceptual master plans which is what Christine walks you through so this is

One that was unusual because it doesn’t have a lot of development pressure at this time so on the north side of the city it starts within a park and then kind of works its way back down to the river so this is one that we are doing a

Lot of streams stream restoration and park improvements reforestation as part of a part of this one which is slightly unusual and one of the things that we’re realizing with this particular project is because we are getting some of these flash flood storms that are becoming more and more consistent as far as

Climate change and resiliency and things of that nature having to rethink how our approach is because the pervious area is acting just as much as it would as if it was impervious during flash storm events so this is one that we are kind of doing underground storage or widening our

Streams to make them a little bit more able to handle those flows looking at how do we work with our our Parks Department and and making trail improvements and really trying to keep sediment from getting in our natural stream so that it can actually function more like a stream one of the

Other ones that we’re we’re doing on our large-scale sewer sheds scale level is a 42 this is both our largest as far as area and our largest as far as CS so how are we kind of looking at our ups upland reaches of the neighborhoods this particular sewer shed does have high

Vacancy on the upper reaches both with the larmor community and Homewood communities that kind of flow down to a very channelized area that is technically within a park and then it is kind of situated near our luck and dam situation with the Army Corps this particular project we have conceptual

Designs we are working with the Army Corps of Engineers because of the impacts that the outfall does have on that on the dam system they are working with us for the design on this on this project we did have fatalities here and so this is definitely one that is a high

Priority and and really kind of a large emphasis for us as an authority this is looking at how do we kind of deep a further further upstream how do we kind of make sure that we’re managing our sediments that are coming up for steep hillsides there’s a veteran an old

Veterans hospital that the city is in the process of purchasing from the federal government so how do we actually start to incorporate stricter components into the RFP process so there were making sure that we are kind of holding holding these developments in these priority areas to a higher standard and

Again we are really looking to how do we actually connect back to the river and how do we reach the this is in alignment with we were on the neighborhood of Larmour was a choice neighborhood recipient which is a HUD EPA collaboration and there’s a lot of new affordable housing being constructed and

So all of that because of code is built being separated it’s a great opportunity to kind of create a more naturalized system of storm separation so moving forward with with those things as well there are new park being incorporated as part of this project so how we kind of tie all

Of these efforts cohesively together between city agencies and for the neighborhood’s four mile run or m-29 this is our third largest CSO contributor again this does focus around a park it is looking at how this particular sewer shed does have a lot of institutions this is where the

University of Pittsburgh is this is a part of their campus the CMU campus as well so how are we really trying to utilize those institutional’s for those large property owners to really be able to direct their water through a system and again re-establish it at the bottom

With an old brownfield site that is made a very strong commitment its Hazelwood green formally known as El mono site but they are making a very strong commitment to sustainability and design so how do we actually kind of work and blend those efforts together this is an issue where

We have a lot of sewers that are surcharging and see a nice guys are there that’s down in the junction hollow area of the city it floods continuously anytime we get a heavy rain storm as we have been lately you know I’m getting calls from residents saying the streets

Flooded their sewer in their basement so really us taking a more proactive approach to stormwater we really see that as one investment that’s going to alleviate multiple issues such as this this again would be how do we kind of incorporate Complete Streets and use our topography as conveyance systems

Restoring our streams and giving them a little bit more capacity there’s a historic lake that is there and how do we kind of make retrofits to that and make it more effective currently with this project we did do a modification to the outlet structure where we have a

Valve that allows the water during storm events to kind of raise up and hold water that it will slowly drain down which is a nice new technology that we’re testing out currently on the lake but then again how do we use basins and constructed wetlands to not only you

Know store that storm water but also clean it so that it’s cleaner when it’s actually getting into our rivers again just this is also working in tandem with our Department of mobility and infrastructure they are looking at how do you create more transit opportunities the autonomous vehicles connecting with

Both the Hazelwood green site and actually through the neighborhoods to connect connect them back up to the Oakland area which is where a huge employment center for this city so those are kind of working in tandem between between these efforts as well in between on this is another Park project that

We’re doing there was a master plan that was done a conceptual master plan that was completed a few years ago and when we when the authority learned about it it was in an area where we were having a lot of localized flooding and basement backups and so this project is being

Done in partnership with the Department of Public Works and this will allow were retrofitting kind of a smaller scale community park but this would have a constructed wetlands underground storage that we’re doing under a baseball field and again this is just showing when we’re leveraging our dollars effectively

We’re able to kind of work collaborative more of an impact for neighbors which is really what we’re trying to accomplish one of the areas that was the antithesis for our green first plan was the a 22 sewer shed it’s a it’s a very interesting sewer shed that kind of

Starts at a university and and runs through multiple different neighborhoods one of the things that’s unique about Pittsburgh is people are just kind of used to it and they’re they don’t call and complain when there’s sewage in their basement and you know there was one event in 2014 where we got 11 calls

And that was a little unusual and so we actually sent out a survey and we got got those results back and it was 136 chronic basement flooding issues that we weren’t even aware of so it kind of changed how we were looking at what we were doing across the city and knowing

That you can’t just keep putting pipes because it’s just sinning sending the problem just down a street or down a block so that was kind of the first one so this is one that we have been doing considerable projects kind of in the first phase these are under construction

Now hill crest is one was constructed last fall and then finished up in the spring so the picture on the right was actually run on July 4th so between July 2nd and July 4th we got 5.9 four inches of rain and in this area and that was we have a rain gauge down

The street that was recording that data and so so far in the city we’ve gotten about thirty four and a half inches of rain this year and so if we were anticipating at least another 20 inches of rain this year which means that we’re going to be in our historic rainfall

Numbers for the year but this the picture on the right was from the 4th the picture on the left was actually one that I took on Wednesday and so it has drained down but this is showing like how effective this is and this is at the top of the watershed so keeping that

Water out so it’s not creating issues downstream this is an another part of the area where we are doing right-of-way improvements so how do we kind of work with you know there’s a we have a lot of stairs so how do we kind of make improvements for pedestrian crossings

And improvements this is under construction now this is a shady side area where we are looking at this is where we’re getting a lot of basement backups and complaints so this is going to be a lot of underground storage but doing starting to do our green alleys program and doing stormwater treatment

And things like that to really and bump-outs to kind of have more of an impact in a very urban area within the city we’re working starting to kind of work a little bit more with developers or property owners because we we acknowledge that doing things in city

Property or city right away we’re never going to get to where we needed where we need to be to meet our compliance goals so this is one that we will be working with Chatham University is at the top of a of a watershed but how do we help kind

Of this has streams which are very prominent in the city streams and Springs we have old mines and acid mine drainage that come into the system at different points but again it’s like how can we work together is their campus so they would be kind of

Going and paying for some of those above and beyond landscape amenities but we would be handling more of the stormwater components as part of this project this is one other one that we’re doing is a park as part of the city planning department they did an assessment of all

Of our open space a few years ago and this this particular parklet was slated for naturalization meaning that it wasn’t its proximity to another park didn’t necessarily mean that this needed to serve the same purpose and so as we’ve been looking at it because of this

Slope is you can kind of see it kind of directs down to a low point kind of made it a very natural area to remove playground equipment and to actually make it more of a passive stormwater park so we’re in the process of that design right now that’ll be finished at

The end of the year and will be constructed next year but this again is in partnership with both our Planning Department and DPW who will be removing the equipment helping with maintenance moving forward and so that’s that’s all we have for today definitely want to

Make sure we open it up to any questions that you may have here’s our contact information and we’ll keep that on the screen as we transition into questions okay thank you um believe it or not it doesn’t look like we have any questions yet so we’re just waiting for those to

Come in again in the questions box it’s located in your webinar toolbar to the right of your screen and please don’t raise your hand it looks like people are trying to do that you need to type the questions in and while people are doing that I will remind everyone that this

Presentation will be available on our YouTube channel just search planning webcast on YouTube and we’ll also have a copy of it available as a PDF on our webcast web page which is Ohio planning that org slash planning webcast um okay we’re starting to get the questions and

Now holy smokes here we go so first question can you talk about funding sources a little bit more this comes down to funding so yes so currently the majority of the funding has come from PwC’s capital budget the planning efforts was an operational expense but so far that

Has been the driver we are trying to do about 15 to 20 million dollars a year in stormwater projects we did work with algis on who is our our the wastewater treatment provider for the county and they have 83 municipalities they have a grant program that we’ve received probably about 7 million dollars

Thus far with the projects that we have submitted that’s based upon how effective you are in managing and taking water out of the system we do have partnerships with on certain projects where it is Park projects DCNR is a partner a funding partner for Whiteman Park which is a state agency the Army

Corps has been a partner and even there has been some foundation support for 4 mile run and for another project we’re doing on the south side and planning actually right now if the way that it works with planning if you are unable to meet your stormwater requirement there

Is a lieu of fund and so lawn an affiliate parklet is actually one of our first that we are drawing from from our stormwater trust fund so that’s so that’s been it so far we are in the process of evaluating and implementing a stormwater utility fee that will go live

In 2020 and so as soon as that that would be our primary funding source and that is based upon impervious area and so residents would have a consistent bill per parcel then it would be kind of it would vary for our larger property owners as well and that is a more

Equitable way because currently it’s based upon sewer and water usage or water usage actually or sewer rate is based upon how many water you use and that’s about 70% of our customer base and they’re not the ones who are contributing to the storm water issue so it kind of shifts the

Onus more appropriately for for the city okay thanks you mentioned sewage backups is the sanitary like brown water and if so are there any other activities like eliminating cross connections or smoke testing for legal connections to storm so eighty percent of the city is a combined sewer system and so when we do

Say there is surcharging in the system oftentimes it is raw sewage that is coming into the system when and then the other the southern part of the city those are later municipalities that were annexed neighborhoods that were annexed to the city and so those actually do have separation they’re separated

Systems so those fall into our ms4 permit but there others are mainly more of our consent decree with the EPA so there’s a there’s a legend that Pittsburgh has and I know others legacy cities have it too with the pittsburgh potty that’s in your basement and that

In the legend in pittsburgh is that it’s the steelworkers were so dirty that they shower downstairs but the the historians have kind of debunked that and said that it was in fact to prevent sewer backup in your basement and that was your kind of out outlet for it so you could push

It back down a little bit later that’s interesting are there any I know at least in Ohio the EPA is cracking down and in the city that I live in all the combined sewer overflows have to be replaced are there talks about doing that and in Pittsburgh no we are our

Attempt is to actually just keep the water out of the system through green infrastructure and manage it before it even enters the pipe current code where it makes sense current code you do have to separate all new development so we will strategically separate but we’re

Trying to not just based on the cost of what that would be I mean we have over 1200 miles of pipe so it would it would it would add up really quickly and take a really long time to actually implement that okay next question what influence have lead projects had on Pittsburgh green

Infrastructure initiatives as part of so Pittsburgh is unique because we do have P 4 which is is kind of a more lead but it is looking at development performance place people and planet are the four p’s and that is kind of integrating into code the Eco innovation district in

Uptown that started to set a higher threshold for development as far as how they were managing and it was based more off some of the lead or sites initiative as well and that is also currently in our riverfront overlay district that is hopefully going to council next week so

From from that standpoint I think it we are wanting to do kind of an overhaul of our stormwater code which would kind of give a little bit more I call it a carrot flavored stick because part of when we do launch the the fee we do want

To have kind of an incentive and rebate program so we that would create more of an incentive for developers to manage their storm water more efficiently and there is an ordinance for any any development that is receiving to millionaires at 1 million 1 million in public funds which doesn’t take a lot

When you’re doing these large-scale projects has a higher threshold that they have to hit for green infrastructure yeah I think lead of course any building that’s following lead helps but you know it really helps in the source reduction from the sanitary side we do a lot of lead

Projects in and a lot of times these are infill sites and there’s not a lot of opportunity to do green infrastructure maybe on the full site build-out but they’re doing storage and in some of that’s lead but a lot of it is just our city code it’s really forcing a higher

Level of performance so thank you interesting question has the county adopted a similar stormwater policy and with that how are you collaborating with other neighboring jurisdictions right so there is us the act 167 which is kind of a universal code that would be in effect for all of Allegheny County that has to

Be adopted by all municipalities by December of this year it did go to the DEP and they have six months to implement it and the way that that works is any time that whatever code is more stringent is supersedes any of the other codes so in the city of Pittsburgh our

Code is currently stronger than the base ordinance except for the one place that it changed was riparian zones and flood plain setbacks that is something that will have to be incorporated because that did have a higher threshold that than what is currently in city code alga San is because they are the regional

Sewer Authority for the area does have a consent decree with the EPA as well and they they are kind of currently taking what we were doing in citywide and trying to look at it from more of a regional regional effort because you know water knows no boundaries so even

What’s happening within the city scale neighborhood neighborhood you know miss patty municipality it doesn’t matter one thing that the authority has been taking the lead on for four years now is sawmill run which is an interagency agreement with 12 different municipalities along is the only open-air stream within the city and we

Are working with them mainly from an MS for TMDL joint application but right now we are trying to figure out we have projects that have been identified kind of across municipal boundaries so we are trying to figure out how that works is caught far as hey we’re going to do a

Project in this particular community knowing that it will have impact on the city and what will that cost share be so that report is slated to be finished by the end of in December so we’ll start moving with implementation starting next year thank you and what

Kind of support or response you get from your constituents like residents for example are they engaged in the development process and with that well first let’s answer that and then I’ll go to a second the second part of that question okay so I we have a we have a pretty

Robust nonprofit an advocacy community here who’s had storm water and green infrastructure on the radar screen for a number of years and out of that community prior to even PWSA taking this on there have been advocacy groups for 30 40 years trying to do this 9 Mile Run watershed association you know really

Laid the the foundation of this idea in the late 90s but other community groups have gotten involved because they they their lived experience of storm water is very real and Megan mentioned a 42 where there was a loss of life due to flooding and that kind of galvanized a community

Called Larmour to really think hard about their upstream impact and out of that came a project called living waters of Larimar that looked at small-scale site based issues and there’s a little eco center community center that has a great rain garden and some little things that people can do themselves and some

Really amazing stories that the residents will tell you about how far they go to conserve water and to bring water onto their site but it also that group is the group that really pushed hard on this choice neighborhood project and this development that’s coming in to

Say that you know if you’re building new please don’t just separate like let’s talk about how we bring that water back out to the landscape and because of that enabled this conversation to happen with the Army Corps of Engineers and so PWSA has been really really great in kind of

Picking up the ball you know and running with it because it’s now at a scale where a small community group or an advocacy group or nonprofit they just can’t take it any further they don’t have that jurisdiction and I think PWSA it’s been really respectful and and and collaborative and working with those

Groups that said you know we’re all learning as we go and so we’re oh you know there are moments where there are things we missed and wish we could go back and change it and then you know moments where we’re gonna have to figure out how green infrastructure

Really works best in our neighborhoods and in our regions and hoping that the communities with us on that as a kind of learning journey because you know you just can’t anticipate everything such as these massive rainfalls we’ve been having lately thank you so so private property owners they are there are

Involved residents are involved but for those that might need some more coaxing are there any incentives for private property owners to reduce permeable surfaces on their property or find ways to redirect some of the stormwater things like that yes so one of the things we did do two rounds of grant

Cycles and that was one it was for some of those smaller nonprofits or community groups to do demonstration projects and knowing that it’s not necessary that’s not our high capture we’re not going to meet our consent decree with all those projects but it was more of a neighborhood scale education opportunity

And then a portion of that was also a matching grant program that was able to for people who were going above and beyond meeting just stormwater code was a way to offset them a little bit as an incentive and so we will be continuing

That program as the fee we we did not do around this year because we are ramping up for for next year but property owners right now there that that had been our mechanism but we will be doing more of a robust program moving forward right now unless you’re building a construction

And coming into the code there’s not much of a stick but when the stormwater fee goes into place it’s going to change the economics of it and PWS saint’s been attentive to not burdening property on us who can’t pay perhaps especially kind of small-scale and residential or low

Income but to assess like megan says some of the properties that contribute a lot are able to to carry some of that responsibility and that will happen when the stormwater fee comes into play and I would say that right now we do when we are doing projects in the neighborhoods

We are reaching out to the residents we’ve learned a lot of lessons over the past two years for sure as to what’s most appropriate and we are even just covering them making sure that we’re even sending like certified mail just to be like hey like letting people know and

Even going door-to-door a meeting with residents if there is a system going in front of their property because a lot of times you know people have been keeping taking care of their right away for twenty thirty years and they assume that it’s their land and we’re like no

Actually it’s it’s public and we do have the right but we we have had to alter some designs because it was just at this stage and the emphasis of the program it wasn’t worth the fight and and having a negative connotation associated with the project but we do have leading up pretty

Much 2019 is the the year of kind of outreach and education and really trying to like get the word out we’re developing a full campaign just to make sure that people fully understand why and what they’re gonna see as far as the the system’s coming online and with the

The–what it will cover and how it will benefit them so it’s it’s gonna be a lot of talking next year and educating people Thanks in your plans are you specifically addressing the issue of equity particularly for the underserved neighborhoods communities yes and I would say that because of the way that

The fee is structured that will actually help offset some of those those rates because it is more equitable because they’re not contributing to that so so because it will be a separate kind of tariff their sewer rates will go down so that is good and I mean part of we were

Very conscious of doing projects I mean Hillcrest is is within the Garfield neighborhood and may have been a little bit better but it was like nineteen percent vacancy at one point and that was doing a project there first was a way to to kind of say like

Yes we’re not coming to you last we’re not just focusing on on the higher neighborhoods and I would say the the living waters of Larmour that was an underserved community in a lot of ways and that was really if you could meet Miss Mary you would be just amazed at

How how serious and how just energizing this community was and really embracing this concept and using conserving their water and really just starting to be your best advocates I think Ivana CLE probably the majority of the grassroots advocacy for green infrastructure has come from historically underserved communities whether it’s Rosedale block

Cluster Larimer in that the some of our most wealthy communities like Shadyside only experience this issue as basement backups because that’s a built out community there’s not a lot of green space they don’t see the opportunities for you know green infrastructure in the same way as communities that may be how

Are caring for the vacant lot next to their house do so I think the awareness is actually coming more from the underserved communities I would agree okay um so like Cleveland where I’m at Pittsburg sees winner how do you maintain the green infrastructure particularly let’s say permeable pavers

During the winter months when you’re dealing with a lot of salt and trucks and scraping how do you ensure that your infrastructure stays intact to be determined we haven’t built any of those yet we do have a permeable asphalt parking parking area that is a has been

Holding up well the plows actually do have the appropriate more the buffer so it’s not going to scrape the roads or the pervious the permeable pavers those systems because they are permeable they allow for more flow so they’re actually going to be better in the winter months from a

Freeze thaw cycle and salts are just in those are that’s a huge issue the way that we do have to salt the roads and so a lot of times what we do is we sandbag and block the water in the winter from actually going into the system but we

Are doing a lot of them with like with plant plant material that can handle those salts there’s I’m interesting kind of the the topography of Pittsburgh doesn’t allow for us to have a lot of flat paving and so when you don’t have flat paving putting water underneath the

Paving sometimes can be really cost prohibitive because you have to build check dams and you really have to you know it’s it’s it’s not in our soils it’s not going back into the ground it’s just an underwater conveyance system I think one of the interesting things about is our is our rainfall intensity

Which happens to be much greater in the seasons that the plants are alive whereas in the winter our water entering the system is coming in more slowly because we’re not either getting the cloudburst that we get in the summer or it’s snow and the melt is just coming

Off at a different pace so so we’re paying attention to the intensities and the frequency of our storm events as well as the impact on you know sending salts into the plant areas in what areas are sacrificial and need to be replaced more frequently than others and how are

We you know how are we planning that those sites to be to understand different frequency of maintenance okay next question is there a link to the master plan for these improvements somewhere yes I know it’s on our website I think it’s on the growing green page

We do have both a new phase one of the green first plan is there and it does kind of have all the conceptual master plans and then I don’t know phase two we did kind of do the next round of sewer sheds finished at the end of last year so I don’t know

If that’s been uploaded we’re in the process of updating our website so I don’t know if our content as is as accurate as it could and should be but it is on the website okay so how and when will you evaluate the effectiveness of this program we’re doing that on a

Daily basis and part of it and part of the reason is that we Pittsburgh is really advocating for green a green approach we didn’t want we’re making significant improvements along our riverfront and the alternative was more of a tunnel system and so we really want to limit that and really kind of

Advocate for algis and to utilize the current tunnel system effectively before we do that so we have kind of an interim kind of pause if you will with the consent decrees which is 2023 so we do have a lot of kind of work and proof to give the regulator’s between now and

Then we are doing pre and post construction for all of our projects so we do have flow meters in where we’re actually calibrating so we can really kind of definitively say how much water we are taking out of the system throughout so we are constantly kind of evaluating and and making sure that

We’re doing the right thing or changing where we’re going to be focusing or you know how we might need to tweak our designs so that’s an iterative process for sure and on the monetary side are you trying to or are you able to track kind of on one side the capital

Expenditures you know all the money you’re putting into it and then on the other side are you able to start modeling what the future savings might look at to see sort of where you shake out and I don’t know 20 years have you done any kind of you know

Kind of cost-benefit yet uh some not a ton and part of that is so we are in the process of creating a new MoU with the city because right now stormwater is kind of split in between multiple agencies and and that’s not necessarily cost-effective or it creates

Kind of a confusion as to who’s responsible for what so that is something that we are currently doing right now one of the things that we that are unknown is taking over some of the systems that are historically not been within our purview within our park

Systems and some of the ms4 issues those are a little unknown so the impacts to our budget are unclear at this point we right now since we’re a program is still kind of new we do have landscape contractors who are doing maintenance for the first year to two years

Depending on the on the job we are working with our nonprofit partners so senator and Herron is a western Pennsylvania Conservancy is doing the maintenance for that where they will be doing continual fundraising for that to continue ongoing maintenance we are participating in the national green infrastructure certification program so

We I think Pittsburgh if I’m not mistaken we have the most people that go through that program so far and we are looking historically it kind of started out with our contractors and our inspectors kind of doing it but we are working to kind of make that more to

Incorporate more of our local kind of workforce development opportunities and that as well historically kind of across the country communities are telling us they need to allocate five to ten percent of the capital cost for ongoing maintenance so that’s kind of what we’re trying to base

That on and then depending like some of the park stuff we do have our nonprofit partners or other city agencies who will be responsible for certain components of projects as well ask me again in like three years and I’ll probably have a very different answer right okay could

You talk about maybe one or two I guess fails that ended up needing to be redesigned or changed in some way yep senator and harun utility duck Bank did not show up on the survey and there was no manhole or no record of it until we were

Breaking ground so our our Inlet system had to be in our Inlet system on how we were getting water into the system and how we were getting out of the system how to be completely redesigned while under construction to the tune about $35,000 so that was a little blow again

It’s we had a higher cost on some of those first projects knowing as I did say that we we did relocate one of the systems further down downhill it didn’t take away from the value of the project but it was redirected more to a vacant property so it was better Mel wouldn’t

Finland actually there was a guy who had purchased property through side lot and he didn’t know and he wanted to driveway so I think they were actually they’re retrofitting that design as well so I think just it’s every every time we’re like this is how this is this is how it should work

Every project has been different and the issues that would come up right now we are having we had like the week of the fourth we got you know about in one night we got three inches of rain within the span of about two hours and some

Parts of the city so we are kind of battling that right now with educating the community they’re like we never had this issue you put in this rain garden I’m like well you know you had three feet of water in your street that’s not necessarily the rain garden but but if

We are having to got to go back and see how was that what obviously that system was overwhelmed but was it part of the paving is it redirecting too much flow to one particular community member or how do we need to with the intensity of the storms being so extreme especially

This year do we need to be too to a different threshold that it’s one of the things I think that we’re really kind of grappling with right now and and I’m punting it up even to like the other city agencies the resiliency office the budget office and just you know how as a

City do we need to start being more proactive in buying properties and not allowing people to be in vulnerable areas because it does put a huge burden from an emergency services standpoint and a homeowner’s from their insurance standpoint when there’s just places that people shouldn’t live did you add to

That that that you know I think I think green infrastructure is just the tip of the iceberg in thinking about how we manage our natural systems and urban spaces because the you know Pittsburgh hasn’t had a lot of high maintenance landscape architecture in its past it compared to some cities and we don’t

Have the same I think well developed professional maintenance system that other cities might have in you know if we’re going to be relying on volunteers or communities or a professional system we need to all be committed as a city that it’s gonna take maintenance these things you know need they need labor

They need to be maintained cost aside it’s just a different relationship we need to have with our landscape and I think where that comes in is even just looking at our naturalised what we think of as our naturalized areas of hillsides and wooded areas are being overtaken by

A lot of invasives if those invasives of the vines and such end up killing those trees that are providing valuable root systems and uptake and we get more runoff and now we’ve compounded a problem that a little green infrastructure thing on a vacant lot was never really meant to solve in the first

Place you know we needed to think more strategically about landscape management urban landscape management and I think this is the beginning of that awakening for us thank you you you you both have been kind of talking here and there about maintenance but I’m still getting a lot

Of questions about it what generally are the maintenance requirements going to be for this the like yeah so we are doing it so part of all of our projects now have an OEM kind of lifecycle a maintenance guy that’s being put together I mean a lot of it is you know

Cutting back the plants making sure that sediment isn’t blocking the system if sediment is getting into the underground storage backing that out emptying all the inlet filter bags so that it’s emptying out their sediments or cleaning the catch basins putting in rock from time to time pruning trees cutting

Things back we do not that is one one thing we don’t and it gets into weird liability so right now it’s a interesting code issue as um if it’s in the right-of-way technically is the responsibility even though they don’t own it and they’re not really supposed

To do anything with it people so do the maintenance of those spaces of the right away is on the adjacent property owner so this is one thing we’re like no we don’t want you to do this and sometimes it’s like we or we want to say you can’t

Alter the system but you know people want a weed or cut flowers back we’re not gonna you know cite them for that but that is one of the things that we’re doing but I think because we are right now kind of shifting to some of these larger scale projects a little bit more

We may be shifting a little away from the right away except for more conveyance through our streets it might not be as intensive just every neighborhood is varies as far as how built out it is and how much right away is available so it’ll vary okay thank

You um are you working with the we’ll transit authority to design bus stops that have green infrastructure and are also accessible in you know meeting normal 88 guidelines things like that yes one of our projects we did we are working with the Port Authority had a

Relocate a bus stop so we are checking with them or making sure that there’s you know turning radiuses and proper things like that we are putting things identifiers so they can actually see see the bump outs because that was one of the things we heard from a lot of other

City bollards a little bollards as well anytime that we’re doing projects we are kind of bringing them up to a DA compliance if there’s any ramps or anything like that those any sidewalk improvements those are incorporated as part of the right-of-way manual that we have with the city so it’s required that

You do that at the time okay um are you finding that green infrastructure increases maintenance costs particularly over tunnels and if so how is the city accounting for those expenses so that is one of the hardest things I think right now where it’s a it’s very clear as to

How much maintenance is needed on the tunnels they’ve been doing that for a really long time so I know there is there’s new data kind of coming out as far as the construction of tunnels and the ongoing maintenance but that is one thing that we were we kind of really are

Advocating for is because then it does actually create more year-round workforce development opportunities but the the data is a little light and we know that we’re trying to extrapolate from any pressure that we’re doing it as far as when they’re under construction you know we document like how many

Employees were on site that day what were they doing so you can actually even go back where I Kokee what they’re bringing in this many tons of gravel where is that coming from all right how many jobs does that facility employ and things like that so you can actually

Start to kind of create those num um kind of well has there been any pushback from community activists and/or elected officials who take the perspective that using public resources should be more focused on poverty reduction affordable housing some perhaps bigger issues that some might might think these are bigger issues

Rather than infrastructure improvements have you had a lot of pushback on that that you know these dollars our time our resources should be going to you know bigger fish yeah I don’t think so I mean I don’t think we’ve seen that there are different pots of money in there I mean

We don’t have a choice it’s not because we’re doing this because it’s good good well this is this is meeting the letter of the law and neither we pay for it with underground infrastructure or we pay through for it with a combination of underground and above-ground infrastructure so I think the

Communities generally been very supportive of this and the one thing I would would also say is that you know if we were just to build pipes we would leave it and there would be no benefit and by doing green infrastructure you are getting more sidewalks you are

Getting more trees you are getting kind of betterments on a neighborhood scale level that are gonna have more of an impact on the day to day lives versus just building tunnels underground I think for Pittsburgh and for every city there’s a question of at what scale is

The most effective and is it is it that every property owner is doing something is it that there’s a grenade but distributed systems that are the the small to medium scale or are you going with a full-on regional scale which is what we have right now which is not not

Meeting its needs right now so you know I think every city will have a different calculation that they’re running but once you you know once you fall under consent order a consent decree there really isn’t a choice as to doing nothing or doing something else with that money

Okay I’m way back in the beginning of your presentation you described the different facets of the green infrastructure system is the restoration and widening of streams intended to expand the storage capacity or is it more of a way to improve conveyance or both both it depends on the width of

That valley and the capacity to take it so two of the projects that Megan talked about four mile run and 842 have have some capacity to do both in a 41 as well halves run also has capacity to do both but the woods run project that she

Showed the image from is actually pretty heavily occupied in the valley and there’s houses and libraries and fire houses and things like that so there’s just not that same capacity okay and how how does permitting look when you’re doing these when the the restoration and the widening what is the process for at

Both the state and if there are any federal implications yes so on the smaller projects usually it’s just coordinating with city agencies as we are getting into these larger projects there’s going to be significant permitting so we do have the conservation district of Allegheny of Allegheny County they have to do kind of

Like a stormwater view if it’s over two acres or disturb or one a curbs from sorry as well as it you’re ENS permit anytime we are we’ve already met with the DEP and the Army Corps of Engineers so if you are reestablishing a connection to a u.s. body of water then

That does trigger a higher permitting issue so Army Corps does wetland permits dam permits and on the rivers as well so for the stream restorations we are not sure if it will trigger a dam permit yet it depends on how much we are restricting and the flow

At given points Panther Hollow Lake I know they consider it’s not an official dam they treat that as an impoundment and so if we can kind of keep with that it might limit it up but we’re adding more time because of the permits we’re assuming permitting will be six to nine

Months depending on the project okay I’m just going through these last couple questions here to see if there’s anything that we haven’t answered is new development required to limit stormwater runoff volume to a Stewart historic or future estimated values no one no current code for stormwater reviews you

Do have to manage up to like the 95 percentile storm on site unless you’re in some of the the overlay districts because those have a higher threshold we want to make it we want to maybe take that as the baseline across the city and then other areas have even maybe more

Stringent restrictions for the developers just because there’s just capacity issues especially on the riverfront because you’re at the bottom of the shed they’re there they need to manage a little bit more effectively and manage a little more so they can actually in certain situations they can’t get their sanitary flows they need

To take stormwater out so that they can actually get their sanitary tap in I think it may be in that question to is a question about some of the climate change issues that we’ve seen in the unpredictability or what are we forecasting towards a Megan spoke a

Little bit that you know we’re not sure that we’re throwing the ball as far as we need to be but the rain Corp here in Pittsburgh did a study that looked at like out of the last ten years are we if our average design year is

Taken from 1993 out of the last ten years seven of the ten years are above that design year so like what do we make of that and how do we know where we should be and you know I give that anecdote that you know my house is a

Hundred years old and my gutters have worked really well for a hundred years but these storms that we’re seeing now don’t work the gutters don’t have the capacity for the storm intensities that we see so it’s a it’s a question not only at the building scale but at the

Conveyance scale of the public infrastructure scale the green infrastructure scale and these larger capacities as well and these larger infrastructure below-grade systems as well so I don’t I don’t know that we haven’t an answer but we’re watching it very closely to see to see where what the trajectory is thank you I’m roll

Quick is the five to ten percent of capital costs for maintenance an annual cost figure yes okay thank you and I think this will be our last question and man I’ve been you know we’ve been ringing through this for like over half an hour you guys have been really good

Sticking with me so thank you beer after this and I’m not leaving like you know a big bomb for last do you have any insights on how to improve the flooding situation in the historic Ellicott City that has been inundated twice in two years I yeah this is a tough one

Easy one you know I think that in some cases there have been properties and residents that have been moved out of their buildings because of historic and consistent flooding in a strategic decision the cost to maintain that infrastructure and the and that those houses was going to surpass the ability of the homeowners

And public agencies etc that’s not something that people take lightly you know we’re a community of hilltops and valleys and so we’re not you know looking at that as a widespread means of solving it but where we have choices and can try to work with our natural systems and understand that those natural

Systems provided a service for us I think we’ll have some more resiliency built into the system otherwise you know we could rebuild the sewer system and have all new equipment and still be under sized and not have access to that infrastructure to make it as resilient

As as we need it to be as we move forward the flooding issue is tied so much to that and green infrastructure is just a part of it it’s it’s a much bigger conversation about resiliency and natural systems yeah I think the only thing I would add and I mention it a

Little bit earlier is you know I think urban renewal was real and it wrecked a lot of cities and so I think practices on land acquisition and things like that kind of people are know here locally that is not a term or a process that the

City has wanted to do and I think because of our decline you know we weren’t in a position to take appropriate properties or we had so many properties so for a while we’re like yes yes bill bill this is great where I think now it is kind of that pause to

Kind of be like what what do we really need the city to look like and how does it need a function to kind of be safe and be a place where people would want to come and and I think just that resiliency in that some of those issues

Are just really gonna have to be what drives drives development a little bit more that landscape urban his own component of putting that system first and kind of building it out from there which is important okay so Megan and Christine thank you for joining us today and to the Pennsylvania

Chapter for hosting this session everyone remember you will be able to get a PDF copy of this on our web cast web page Ohio planning org slash planning web cast and shortly we will have a recording of this session available on our youtube channel just search planning webcast on youtube so

Thanks again and everyone have a great weekend and a great Friday the 13th thanks everyone thanks everybody bye-bye

ID: I5CAkLStAoM
Time: 1531768450
Date: 2018-07-16 23:44:10
Duration: 01:25:57

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