Title:آینده اکولوژی شهری – مصاحبه با ایگناسیو بانستر-اوسا

معمار منظر و طراح شهری Ignacio Bunster-Ossa، FASLA، LEED AP، از دفتر APA در شیکاگو بازدید می کند تا درباره کتاب جدید خود، “تجدید نظر در Ian McHarg” که اکنون در APA’s Planners Press موجود است، بحث کند.

قسمتي از متن فيلم: In 1969 Ian mchargue laid out a new approach to land planning his seminal work designed with nature blazedd a new trail for sustainable urban development the road was paved with good intentions but it had some unintended consequences I’m Meegan Stromberg executive editor of planning magazine and I’m here today

With ignacio bun serosa he’s the author of reconsidering en McHargue the future of urban ecology published in 2014 by APA planners press he’s also a landscape architecture and urban design principle at wrt that’s the company founded in nineteen sixty three SW mrt with the m standing for McHargue thanks for joining

Us today Ignacio good morning my pleasure tell us what got you started on this project what made you decide to write the book um wonderful question if I think I was I’ve been working in the urban environment as an urban designer landscape architect for most of my professional career and

There was a point in which i figured that i might as well try and get my ideas in in a format that could inform myself in clearing up some thoughts and sharing it with others as to what it means to work in the urban environment

And what is needed to make it as i call it the environment of choice and had you written a book before no i have not written a book before i learned a lot from it it took me a lot longer than i thought it might but i’m very glad I did

It could you summarize what the idea is behind the book the title itself is reconsidering in McHargue well I was I studied under McHargue and his methods you know took us to the hinterland basically to understand ecology as a landscape and understanding the issues of development in that landscape little

Of which had to do with urban centers and so I in examining my own thoughts about how to make urban centers more attractive especially denser I had to in a way examine the education that I had received and what I could learn from this other emphasis on on working more

In suburban situations and then in urban situations and hence the reconsideration of that education and those teachings in the context of the problems of the day which i think are much more urban infocus than they used to be because he saw going out and living with nature in

A compatible sensitive way to nature as the ideal yes and in your book you posit that can’t do that anymore and in fact we need to become denser and more urban well I think the United Nations finally agreed a couple of years ago then the

Humanity in this day and age is an urban you know we live in cities most people in the world live in cities and certainly that’s the case in this country and so therefore it poses that as an imperative meaning okay if that’s what we are and I kind of ingest the st.

About there where we should be called Homo urbis instead of sapience because of that condition then we really need to pay attention to what is that environment that we live in what is our nature in a way and it’s not the kind of wildlife pristine imagination that we

Have of nature as I think McCarrick tend to think okay and pristine nature also being far away in nature yes that’s correct I mean and I mean we have in this country a system of national parks and that are beautiful and our way out there and I think it it exists that kind

Of ideal exists in the in the American consciousness and I think it drives the the desire for so many people to try and live as close as you can to that in the form of single-family homes or estates or something like that and it’s a legitimate desire but it flies in the

Face of where the world is going so in part what I was trying to say in the work case let’s look at this other world the real world we live in and examine ways in which and make it healthier sustainable and desirable the subtitle of the book is the future of urban

Ecology tell me what urban ecology means it’s part of the same story that the ecology that Makar thought which I think by the ways is essential in any education at any level what’s the ecology of of of that more far away landscape of aquifers and flora and fauna and soil conditions hydrology that

You can well study when you when you’re exposed to this matrix of of a natural landscape but if we call the urban environment the quote nature that we live in then there has to be a different way to examine ecology in that context and I think it’s an ecology that

Involves their predilections of people of culture of their ideas about the world and so it’s it’s a different matrix of concerns I think and you look at three things specifically as important to ecology three ideas that underpin the this whole notion that you’re talking about in the bottom yes I

Think that in this in this urban ecology the three things that I mentioned the first one in no particular order of importance but it is green infrastructure what I call a working nature and how the intervening in this environment requires a kind of support from systems that are

You know trees water systems being with air quality through through landscape and and when you consider that in any city you know fifty percent of the space is open space and that doesn’t even include rooftops then it’s a huge proportion of space in cities that can

Be fitted with a kind of working nature that has a direct impact on the quality of life that we all want to have so that’s number one number two is understanding that in any cities are not amorphous entities or abstract entities they have very concrete sets of people communities each neighborhood is

Different its district the difference the histories of neighborhoods and communities require an engagement of those kinds of conditions and that part of an ecology as well understanding the definition of place which is something that Mauch are taught we just have to apply it to the cultural matrix of

Cities and then the one that is probably strangest to include this public art because if we think that that culture plays a part in an urban ecology then the people that can best understand and work and intervene in the cultural environment to make it if you will

Poetic or meaningful in ways that are beyond simply good design then I art plays a big role in that and and that’s what I try to combine in kind of a fusion of those three things to say that those are elements of an urban ecology that needs to be understood and

Applied in urban design and landscape architecture and mchargue might not necessarily agree with you on that last part he was not a big fan of public art what did what did he was not he was not a he never called it public art he was not a fan of artists that intervene

Gratuitously in an ecological setting I I dearly wish that he had lived long enough to be able to have this conversation with him today because he would probably recognize that there’s more to design and simply the rigorous interpretation of the college as he taught it but of course he’s not here so

We cannot guess what he would have said but I he he wasn’t particularly friend of artists and the way they think do you have an idea of what he would say about other aspects of the book sort of us particularly trying to make denser urban places places where people want to be

And making nature work in those areas I suspect he would understand today that the issues of energy usage in transportation or a dependency the use of land in sprawl are not good things and you would have changed his mind but I think I also need to mention that that

One of his star students and in fact the person that succeeded in as chair of the department hip architecture I thin was an sperm and and of course wrote the seminal book the granite garden which begins to really look at urban conditions in a way that that support macaques thinking so and I

Think is a huge figure in this quest to make cities livable and I think she she deserves a lot of I guess plaudits and commendations for having initiated this whole while you thinking Philadelphia is an interesting place it’s where wrt is it’s where Penn is where Ian McHargue

And you taught and studied but it’s also interesting it’s an interesting place to look at in terms of what you’re talking about sort of making cities more livable tell us what’s going on in Philadelphia well Philadelphia is undergoing kind of a renaissance of sorts there’s been a

Major shift in the economic base of the city in the past 25 years with more emphasis on education medical institutions the Arts for sure and and that’s what drawn Canada Millennials to really begin to own the city and transform it in very creative kinds of waste but the city because of its age

Has the infrastructure in terms of roadways and and streets are very narrow you can you can really easily walk the city they’ve made strides in enacting mobility through trails and greenways and there’s a very aggressive with infrastructure program that is led by the water department to really introduce

Greenery that that’s performative in as a working nature as i call it into every crevice and crack in the cities so it’s a long term process but overall I think the city is much healthier today than it used to be certainly when mchargue was was writing about it in his book which

He referred to the center of the city as one of the most unhealthy places anywhere in the region and of course that has changed well designers and planners & Landscape Architects certainly and engineers certainly have a role in crafting that green infrastructure plan that you mentioned

Um what’s the role of government in that you continuing with Philadelphia I think it’s a very very substantial role I mean the mayor nutter who won’t be running again for the next term really instituted the offices sustainability in the city I think supported new planning initiatives new park initiatives and

Certainly the water department’s initiative to really transform the urban watershed into into a greener place and specifically there are measures method require development to meet certain standards I think the biggest one of them all is the way that water is how you pay for water it’s not from the tap

But it’s in the water your site releases into waterways and the urban environment and the combined sewers so the more you can incentivize developers and people that have properties already to avoid the release of water from their sites by green infrastructure means saves them money and achieve the grant the greater

Kind of societal good of clean water and clean air so that’s an incentive that government provides one of the things you also talked about in the book is different disciplines working together which is common it’s common that architects and planners & Landscape Architects would work together on various projects but you suggest that

There it could be better how could it be better how could we help those disciplines become more as you say transdisciplinary intra disciplinary rather than multidisciplinary yes that’s that’s a good question i think that when when mchargue and wallace started the firm and then bill roberts and Tom Todd

Came on board and subsequently a number of different people with different disciplines the idea was that that urban problems are very complex systems to intervene in and requires different disciplines to address them all what happens I think a lot of times is that clients will require an architect to

Come on board will require landscape architect to come on board and they may come from different places different backgrounds different educational foundations and not all of them will be in the same page in terms of what is the greater project here which is a sustainable agenda and so I think having

A common base at the educational level that all of the professional organizations support would be more in keeping with the idea that you can bring disciplines to focus on problems the same with the same kind of emphasis and how would that how do you think that would go over with those professional

Groups it’s difficult I don’t I don’t think you’re gonna disband the AIA or the APA or the asla and then create one big group at a lot that won’t happen but I think that if if there was some understanding and I think that the answer is an ecological ethic if an

Ecological ethic were taught at the school level and then became the criteria by which these organizations promote membership and and registrations and coursework it would be getting closer to the idea that there’s a common thought behind what the problem is and how to solve it I want to

Return to the idea of those three strands that underpin your argument localism public art and green infrastructure can you think of some places that do that well there’s look there’s a few in the book that really make these poetic linkages with the place that’s there now and sort of the

Geological or other history of the place Washington DC’s National Mall is one you mentioned what other places do that really well I think there are their initiatives that do that well projects that are trying to do is I think of Dallas and they have a project that’s very ambitious called the Trinity River

Corridor project which takes a historic flood way which used to be a beautiful floodplain with all the ecological benefits that you can imagine me and during river in the middle of the city really in the middle looks it’s a very urban place but then it was levied it

Was manhandle if you will by the Army Corps of Engineers and it lost that kind of the co logical value and the city has been trying to recover that and they’re trying to do it also to spur development that that is more environmentally connected to to the river and certainly

To leave processes of certification and through alternatives to automobile promoting transit so you get that sustainable equation there and the project includes public art as part of the amenity package that would make this a unique kind of place very difficult project to implement there’s too many moving pieces very

Expensive but I think it’s a game changer for the city of Dallas so and they’re trying so credit to them that Dallas project has residential components commercial properties it is in a way really hopes to read n safai Dallas correct yes yes it’s a huge catalyst to project is and I think

That’s one of the great great values of public space in this day and age in urban areas in towards achieving a denser environment is what is the amenity of public space and how it can be used as a catalyst to bring about the coalescence of communities around transit facilities around green space

Around parks and greenways in a way that makes them desirable truly a matter of desirable choice and what one of the things that planners and other designers should be doing to make those urban places more more wonderful more attractive to people well it’s an interesting question what I see so many

Times for example let’s say that someone wants to craft a plan for a 100-acre site in the inner city in redevelopment plan the typical reaction is toya we need we need a street pattern so you draw a street pattern and then that gives you a sense of how much buildable

Space there is you apply some floor area ratios to that and you say mixed-use and everybody seems to walk away happy the developers to their performance and they can figure out how much money you’re going to make but at that point to figuring it out almost never you get a

Sense at the same time wait a minute how much public space does this mean and what do you do with a public space in a way that is really you leverage green infrastructure and the come the fusion of public art and working with local communities to do that and I

Can tell you that rarely you find developers or planners that will calculate at the outset how much space you need to really for example control stormwater in a green way it’s more than the typical right away and that’s a penalty right but at the same time it’s

An incentive so you have to work on that fine line between how much what does it do and what’s the economic benefit at the outset and that I think is not that common is there a calculation for public space and amenities that are needed in

There are numbers yes i mean the the i think the the city parks alliance or the Trust for Public Land you know they have metrics that suggests how much space communities should have and how to use it but that’s not that up like that common I mean a few people actually know

Could rattle off what that formula is I don’t have it in my head right now which is part of the problem right well we’ll forgive you okay but they do exist well I thank you so much for spending time with us today and talking about your

Book thank you for joining us thank you again Ignacio bun serosa is the author of reconsidering Ian mchargue the future of urban ecology it was published in 2014 by APA planners press and is available at planning org

ID: VQjRN092q9w
Time: 1426241617
Date: 2015-03-13 13:43:37
Duration: 00:20:12

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